Posted on 09/30/2005 3:31:28 PM PDT by patriciaruth
From Freakonomics by Steven D. Levitt and Stephen J. Dubner
"So, how did Roe v. Wade trigger, a generation later, the greatest crime drop in recorded history?
"As far as crime is concerned, it turns out that not all children are born equal. Not even close.
"Decades of study have show that a child born into an adverse family environment is far more likely than other children to become a criminal. And the millions of women likely to have an abortion in the wake of Roe v. Wade--poor, unmarried and teenage mothers for whom illegal abortions had been too expensive or too hard to get--were often models of adversity. They were the very women whose children, if born, would have been much more likely than average to become criminals. But because of Roe v. Wade these children weren't being born. This powerful cause would have a drastic, distant effect: years later, just as these children would have entered their criminal primes, the rate of crime began to plummet.
"It wasn't gun control or a strong economy or new police strategies that finally blunted the American crime wave. It was, among other factors [including building more prisons and incarcerating criminals with longer sentences], the reality that the pool of potential criminals had dramatically shrunk."
Bill Bennett was citing a study that has gained great credence among many young people and holding it up as an example of the type of arguments that pro-life or pro-abortion advocates should not use to advance their position.
I helped put it there.....
Great book!
My husband's daughter sent it to him.
I found it fascinating reading, as I am always very curious about the underlying causes of things. My training is in science so I like mathematical analysis of data and facts not conjecture and opinion to find out what is going on.
The point is Bennett was arguing against using this kind of information to portray any positive side of abortion. He was calling this an immoral approach. What is being done to Bennett is absolutely unfair.
The Dems are over-reacting to his remark for two reason: 1) They will jump at any chance to cash in on Katrina-inspired paranoia in the Black Community, and 2)they know they're the ones promoting abortion as a method of ghetto population control, not Bennett.
The DUers are trying hard to separate abortion from his remarks because the smart ones know they are treading on thin rhetorical ice.
Race issues are the real third rail of political discussion in America. If you're white and comment, no matter how honestly, on any issue impacting the black community you'll be labeled a racist if you aren't apologizing and beating yourself bloody for something your ancestors may or may not have done 200 years ago.
the original thesis that abortion would kill of blacks and lower the crime rate was originally postulated by Planned Parenthood!
Exactly. And the media and politicians made out like he invented this "argument" in favor of abortion on his own.
It never was an "argument" for abortion, it was a cause and effect that was noted by an economist who was studying the causes of the drop in the crime rate in the 1990's.
Bennett knew a lot of people had picked up on this study and were using it as an argument and he felt that was deplorable.
I don't get it - so what? So, label me a racist. What's gonna happen? The Third (4th,5th) World War? Aliens will come to earth? Half of the world will commit suicide? What? What will happen? Geez - the hype and commotion on someone being called a racist. Unbelievable! And, so what!!!
my own guess is that the greatest crime drop in recorded history occured in Victorian England, over a period of decades. Their underclass was at least the equal of ours, and their slums, much worse. And somehow, they turned into one of the most law-abiding, peaceful societies ever known.
Now of course, they are back-sliding.
source for your Planned Parenthood thesis statement?
I think the overreaction is much more insideous.
They have an orchestrated campaign right now to paint Republicans as corrupt. And the nominations to the Supreme Court are the root timing of when the Dem operatives decided to unleash everything.
In any other year, the Frisk stock sale would have been ignored as a nothing burger.
In any other year, Judith Miller would have taken the offer of release by her source earlier and testified sooner about the Valerie Plame brouhaha.
And good ole Earle in Austin, Texas, could be relied upon to indict Tom Delay on flimsy or no evidence at any time they wanted.
It's all an orchestrated pile-on so it has more legs and leaves a deeper impression.
This came along and they immediately distorted it and blew it out of proportion.
And you can be sure they are mining every resource possible to find anything they can to add on to the pile right now.
One of the interesting things about Freakonomics is that it does discuss some race issues ... like encouraging kids to study, like naming children, like drug gangs, like cheating by teachers in underperforming schools, like school choice...but in a factual analysis kind of way.
It may be the reason this book is popular is that young people find this kind of discussion with factual analysis of issues refreshing and enlightening.
My sentiments exactly, but most people in this country are more afraid of being labeled a racist than they are of being bitten by a poisonous snake.
I am so sick of the endless defense of Bill Bennett's comments and rationalizations for how it was OK to say what he said.
I have listened to the entire conversation, read the transcripts, and heard about 6 different talk show hosts defend him today.
The fact remains that he took a leap and clearly drew an association between blacks and crime. It is not that he advocated genocide or anything of the sort, it is the simple truth that he made a statement that it is a 'fact' that if you were to abort all the black babies that you would lower the crime rate.
That statement alone, even within the context of his dicsussion of the text you referenced, seems to draw an association within the mind of Mr. Bennett between blacks and crime, and as such is an indefensible statement.
Secondly - Bill's a big boy (no pun intended) who knows how to play in the big leagues. Let him speak for himself, he doesn't need your help. I hate it when liberals defend their figureheads just because they are on the same 'team', and I hate it worse when conservatives do the same.
Here's an interesting chart from the book:
HOMOCIDES (per 100,000 people)
England
13th and 14th century ... 23.0
15th century... not available
16th century ... 7.0
17th century ... 5.0
18th century ... 1.5
19th century ... 1.7
1900-1949 ...... 0.8
1950-1994 ...... 0.9
At least when it comes to murder, your hunch is a bit right but doesn't take into account the whole historical picture.
Since the overwhelming majority of mothers who have abortions are democrats, the demise of the power of the party also corresponds to the fact that the voters who should by now reached voting age are nowhere to be found. They have aborted their own existence and conservatives will inherit the earth.
I have use this argument and libs and their reaction always make me laugh.
The political correct or wise thing to do and say in light of the current atmosphere is not why I posted this thread. It was to add more facts to the discussion of the controversy.
I agree that he was stupid for having an adult discussion on the radio, for Heaven's sake.
I think that may be true.
I used not to care that Democrats were aborting their children. It was when I accepted that God cares that I became pro-life.
I think that may be true.
I used not to care that Democrats were aborting their children. It was when I accepted that God cares that I became pro-life.
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