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1 posted on 09/26/2005 10:50:23 AM PDT by jcb8199
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To: jcb8199; Nick Danger
Don an abestos jock strap, quick!

Hey, where is Nick Danger anyway?


If you want a Google GMail account, FReepmail me.
They're going fast!

2 posted on 09/26/2005 10:53:51 AM PDT by rdb3 (NON-conservative, American exceptionalist here.)
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To: jcb8199
this is too long to read but, unless you're being sarcastic in the first few lines, I agree.

boink for later.

3 posted on 09/26/2005 10:54:44 AM PDT by CaptainKeyword (it takes a college education to make a human believe he's a monkey.)
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To: jcb8199

This is a bunch of horse manure.
A big steaming pile, in fact.

Wasteful spending and pork are still wasteful spending and pork when someone with an "R" after his name does it.


4 posted on 09/26/2005 10:59:35 AM PDT by Redbob
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To: jcb8199

War is peace. Slavery is freedom. An uncontrolled spending spree is fiscal conservatism.


5 posted on 09/26/2005 11:03:35 AM PDT by Natty Boh III
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To: jcb8199

Interesting read. Not sure if I buy into the thesis, especially since it posits that George Chaucey Gardiner Bush could think through something so non-obvious, but it's food for thought.


7 posted on 09/26/2005 11:08:46 AM PDT by jaime1959
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To: jcb8199
You make some interesting assertions, but I see a few flaws. If "cash is king" as you suggest; then the ability to produce said cash must be meta-king. The Chinese have utilized Americans' (and the world's) appetite for cheap goods to upgrade their infrastructure (and military) which; while they are willing to buy US debt, seems to be a good deal as you outline. But in doing so, they are acquiring the means of production of many things which can be sold for cash. So if I buy your thesis then I also have to see this phenom as one of them acquiring an ever expanding means of cash production. It just so happens that they today have an appetite for US debt, which is hard (for me and many others) to understand. It is also true that the US can just print money, and that's even easier than making cheap goods to sell for money.

Frankly, I think the world is seeing the ease with which the US can simply print money and it is showing up in commodity prices, eg gold and oil

So without going into lengthy discussion, yeah, the juicy game you outline appears to be working for the moment but it's in many ways dependent upon the kindness of strangers, some of whom may well have questionable motives on a long term basis.

As for the OPEC component of generating this magic cash, our ever expanding economy depends in many ways upon cheap [refined] oil. That too apears more and more tenuous as things progress here. I will admit to being very wrong as to the resiliency of the US consumer over the past few years. Today, OPEC accepts our cash for their oil. In some ways, one has to wonder; the Arabs have seen our real estate market double in value, and everybody seems just gag over it. Maybe they feel left out...why shouldn't oil double? Again I say, the game you cite is working just dandy now. It may not always work so well.

9 posted on 09/26/2005 11:12:05 AM PDT by Attention Surplus Disorder (You get more with a gun and a smile than just a smile itself!)
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To: jcb8199

Interesting.

I even agree with some sapects of it.

However, the problem is that the federal government is growing out of control and taking over the responsibilities of the states.

If Louisiana wants to use tax dollars to rebuild New Orleans, that's within their authority to do so. Maybe the federal government should help rebuild some bridges and roads, but a better solution would be to cut most of the federal gas tax, and let the states fix their own roads with gas tax revenues instead of the money all going into the federal government's hands where it gets spent on pork.

There are problems that the federal government needs to throw money at. Border security is an exellent example of this, yet it's getting sidelined while Bush throws money at issues that are outside the responsibility given to the federal government in the constitution.

The federal government needs to shrink significantly, and if the people want more government programs, they should see about getting them implemented at the state level.


10 posted on 09/26/2005 11:17:03 AM PDT by untrained skeptic
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To: jcb8199
invest cash in ways that earn a higher rate than we have to pay in interest

OK, but I fail to see how larger bureaucracy payrolls earns any 'rate of return'. Also, when the interest rate required to attract investments in U.S. promissory notes raises to, say 10%, then annual interest on our existing 8 trillion of debt amounts to 800 billion ... nearly $11,000 annually for each family of four ... just to cover the interest. No, like IBM, even nations can go belly up.

11 posted on 09/26/2005 11:18:03 AM PDT by layman (Card Carrying Infidel)
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To: jcb8199
until the Sun burns out

Or until our credit rating is so bad no one will provide financing to roll over the debt. *shrugs* whatever.
12 posted on 09/26/2005 11:18:26 AM PDT by BJClinton (Rita blows.)
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To: jcb8199

Please tell me you are joking.


13 posted on 09/26/2005 11:18:55 AM PDT by Rodney King (No, we can't all just get along.)
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To: jcb8199
Interesting how twisted the contortions get when people try to ignore the obvious and rationalize basically unpardonable behavior.

"It's All Strategery" -- Nick Danger, Since Forever

15 posted on 09/26/2005 11:23:42 AM PDT by Regulator
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To: jcb8199

ping for l8er.


16 posted on 09/26/2005 11:24:40 AM PDT by Castro (Moses supposes his toeses are roses...)
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To: jcb8199
"If we have the cash, we get to say how it's spent.

Enough of this "we" BS buddy.

It's MY cash. How about letting me say how it's spent?

25 posted on 09/26/2005 11:43:35 AM PDT by avg_freeper (Gunga galunga. Gunga, gunga galunga)
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To: jcb8199

"The U.S. government borrows it back. Note carefully that our consumers now have the stuff, and our government has the cash. Is this a good deal, or what?"


ummmmmmmmmmmmmm........that would be

No.

WHO winds up paying the INTEREST on this debt?


31 posted on 09/26/2005 12:09:49 PM PDT by taxed2death (A few billion here, a few trillion there...we're all friends right?)
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To: jcb8199

"Our children are not going to have to pay it back. Institutions are not individuals"



Hooooooookkkkkkkaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyy?

What will the tax rate be for a kid (now 10 years old).....when he's 35?


32 posted on 09/26/2005 12:11:41 PM PDT by taxed2death (A few billion here, a few trillion there...we're all friends right?)
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To: jcb8199
The Corporations have never been stronger since they were declared persons in Santa Clara v. Southern Pacific. Well, they weren't actually declared persons, but they have been treated as such ever since. Corporations, our gift to the world, made us what we are--the one power on earth beside which there are no others. Dubya knows that. Watch the list of candidates for '08 to see if any of them are actually wanting to rein in the corporations. So far it doesn't seem so, so we will have to choose on secondary issues. If you have something that works, leave it be. Don't get too caught up in the Enron scandal, it should have no effect even though Enron was heavily into pro-corporate NGOs. Don't buy the reductio ad Hitleram fallacy.
36 posted on 09/26/2005 12:19:58 PM PDT by RightWhale (We in heep dip trubble)
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To: jcb8199

Good post. I actually agree. If you can't beat them, join them. Until a majority of the nation wants less spending, its not gonna happen.

Nearly everyone on FR is for small federal government, and I am too. But that is not gonna happen for years even with a steady conservative agenda. We do have to limit the expansion of federal rights at the expense of states rights, but the Feds can spend plenty without expanding their reach.

Regardless of who spends the money, it goes right into the economy and drives it. I hope eventually we owe China trillions of dollars. Then we can tell them to suck eggs or we won't repay a dime of it. Other nations have done exactly the same to us for years. Turnabout is fair play. Besides limiting their expenditures, it gives us great leverage.


40 posted on 09/26/2005 12:47:20 PM PDT by A.Hun ("I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do" Heinlein)
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To: jcb8199
Know what we'll have when we're done? People who want smaller government.

No, you moron, what you'll have when you're done is more people who are used to stuffing themselves to bursting at the government trough.

42 posted on 09/26/2005 1:01:20 PM PDT by steve-b (A desire not to butt into other people's business is eighty percent of all human wisdom)
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To: jcb8199
Nicky, Nicky,, damn you've been bitten by a MoonBat.. pity..

You've overlooked one thing in your rambleing but entertaining screed.. Dubya just might be a globalist.. and it ALL; from being AWOL on immigration to spending like a drunken Captian Queeg on stawberries.. could have a globalist agenda.. SLAP SLAP, WAKE up Nicky... wake up..
**--------

The one thing everyman fears is the unknown. When presented this scenario, individual rights will be willingly relinquished for the guarantee of well being granted to them by World Government. -- Henry Kissinger, Amiens, France, 1991

"We are not going to achieve a new world order without paying for it in blood as well as in words and money," warned Arthur Schlesinger Jr, in the July/August 1995 issue of Foreign Affairs.

49 posted on 09/26/2005 1:18:28 PM PDT by hosepipe (This Propaganda has been edited to include not a small amount of Hyperbole..)
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To: jcb8199
Clever writing, which only serves to prove "We've come a long way, Baby!".

I can't imagine George Washington writing this, saying this or even thinking it. Instead, he would be laying flat on his back in a fit of pure apoplexy.

Frankly, I think I prefer to go with the federal government George envisioned and fought for - not some slick accountant's idea of "how can we fool 'em today?".

This is a scheme Richard Ben-Veniste and Bill Clinton would be proud of thinking up - if only they had thought of it first!

51 posted on 09/26/2005 1:39:46 PM PDT by Gritty ("A reformed Islam is an oxymoron, because Islam cannot reform and still remain Islam" - Jamie Glazov)
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