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To: bobdsmith
re: Not if Mr can reproduce asexually.)))

LOL! What a silly remark. Obviously the most interesting, complex, and diversified mammals reproduce sexually, and the theory of evolution and speciation is supposed to account for the existence of sexually-reproducing organisms.

IOW---speak for yourself, Mr. ....

My hummingbird was just an example of the problem of "in betweens"--the most obvious "in between" difficulty is mankind.

re: I don't see the problem with different organs evolving in parallel. What would stop eyes evolving at the same time as the heart?)))

The organism would choke and die while trying on contact lenses. Continually silly...

re: Why would speciation be more likely to occur in captivity than in the wild? I think the answer is that speciation of animals generally takes a lot of time.)))

Evos claim that speciation occurs in the wild. If speciation occurs by accident, it ought to be able to be duplicated on purpose. As for time, domesticated animals have been bred to specfication for thousands of years on separate continents. That is, a laboratory of significant history. You'd think, under ideal conditions, that at least one accident would have happened.

Not enough time, eh? Well, that's the stock answer. Billions and billions of years and it'll happen. All these fortuitious accidents in perfect fortuitous order, and not only that....but parallel fortuitous accidents (the lens of the eye) happening with perfect fortuitous cooperation (the circulatory system)...

It's just too absurd for words.

204 posted on 09/26/2005 7:06:07 PM PDT by Mamzelle
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To: Mamzelle
It happens all the time. New species are discovered every day, and new speciation events have been seen in nature and in the lab. They are most commonly seen in plants.
205 posted on 09/26/2005 7:19:36 PM PDT by Mylo ( scientific discovery is also an occasion of worship.)
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To: Mamzelle
It's just too absurd for words.

The only thing absurd is your multiple misunderstandings and misrepresentations of evolutionary biology. Perhaps you might want to *learn* something about the topic before you attempt to critique it again.

For just one example, you write:

Evos claim that speciation occurs in the wild. If speciation occurs by accident, it ought to be able to be duplicated on purpose. As for time, domesticated animals have been bred to specfication for thousands of years on separate continents. That is, a laboratory of significant history. You'd think, under ideal conditions, that at least one accident would have happened. Not enough time, eh? Well, that's the stock answer. Billions and billions of years and it'll happen.
Um, gee, Einstein, you mean like the way that mankind has created countless new species of domestic plants and animals from their wild ancestral species? Please engage brain before posting next time.

Here's another "too absurd for words" argument from your post:

and not only that....but parallel fortuitous accidents (the lens of the eye) happening with perfect fortuitous cooperation (the circulatory system)...
Lenses evolved before the circulatory system, and did so just fine, thank you. By what failure of understanding did you arrive at the erroneous conclusion that they had to be "perfectly fortuitous" together?

Or were you incoherently trying to say that the lens had to "perfectly fortuitously" arise at the exact same instant as the eye, and that the modern vertebrate circulatory system could only successfully arise "all at once" or not at all? Wrong *AGAIN*, as anyone who has ever bothered to *learn* a tiny bit about biology before they spouted off about it would already know, which of course leaves out the great majority of the anti-evolutionary creationists...

209 posted on 09/26/2005 7:51:57 PM PDT by Ichneumon
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To: Mamzelle
LOL! What a silly remark. Obviously the most interesting, complex, and diversified mammals reproduce sexually, and the theory of evolution and speciation is supposed to account for the existence of sexually-reproducing organisms.

There is nothing silly about it at all. Sexual reproduction evolved long before mammals evolved. The ancestors of mammals already reproduced sexually. There are no mammals that reproduce assexually.

>>I don't see the problem with different organs evolving in parallel. What would stop eyes evolving at the same time as the heart?)))

The organism would choke and die while trying on contact lenses. Continually silly...

First of all the basic heart could evolve before eyes even exist (and many organisms have no heart). Second, once the basic heart is in place there is nothing stopping the eyes evolving while the heart is also evolving. At no point would the organism choke and die.

Evos claim that speciation occurs in the wild. If speciation occurs by accident, it ought to be able to be duplicated on purpose.

What do you mean by on purpose? All you can do is sit and wait. You can't speed up the process.

As for time, domesticated animals have been bred to specfication for thousands of years on separate continents. That is, a laboratory of significant history. You'd think, under ideal conditions, that at least one accident would have happened.

No because first there is no reason to think domestication is ideal conditions for speciation, and second why is thousands of years sufficient time? What calculation have you based that on? Why not hundreds of years, or tens of thousands of years? The dog and wolf split over ten thousand years ago for example.

Not enough time, eh? Well, that's the stock answer. Billions and billions of years and it'll happen.

If the rate of speciation were as high as 1 new species per dozen species per 3000 years then that would imply over 100 new species worldwide per year. The fossil record does not bear this out, and neither does recorded history. So such a rate is obviously far too high.

263 posted on 09/27/2005 3:47:58 AM PDT by bobdsmith
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