Posted on 09/22/2005 8:25:42 PM PDT by Crackingham
A court case that begins Monday in Pennsylvania will be the first to determine whether it is legal to teach a controversial idea called intelligent design in public schools. Intelligent design, often referred to as ID, has been touted in recent years by a small group of proponents as an alternative to Darwin's theory of evolution. ID proponents say evolution is flawed. ID asserts that a supernatural being intervened at some point in the creation of life on Earth.
Scientists counter that evolution is a well-supported theory and that ID is not a verifiable theory at all and therefore has no place in a science curriculum. The case is called Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District. Prominent scientists Thursday called a teleconference with reporters to say that intelligent design distorts science and would bring religion into science classrooms.
"The reason this trial is so important is the Dover disclaimer brings religion straight into science classrooms," said Alan Leshner, the CEO of the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) and executive publisher of the journal Science. "It distorts scientific standards and teaching objectives established by not only state of Pennsylvania but also leading scientific organizations of the United States."
"This will be first legal challenge to intelligent design and we'll see if they've been able to mask the creationist underpinnings of intelligent design well enough so that the courts might allow this into public school," said Eugenie Scott, executive director of the National Center for Science Education (NCSE), which co-hosted the teleconference.
AAAS is the world's largest general science society and the NCSE is a nonprofit organization committed to helping ensure that evolution remains a part of public school curriculums.
The suit was filed by the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) on behalf of concerned parents after Dover school board officials voted 6-3 last October to require that 9th graders be read a short statement about intelligent design before biology lessons on evolution. Students were also referred to an intelligent design textbook to learn more information about the controversial idea. The Dover school district earlier this month attempted to prevent the lawsuit from going forward, but a federal judge ruled last week that the trial would proceed as scheduled. The lawsuit argues that intelligent design is an inherently religious argument and a violation of the First Amendment that forbids state-sponsored schools from funding religious activities.
"Although it may not require a literal reading of Genesis, [ID] is creationism because it requires that an intelligent designer started or created and intervened in a natural process," Leshner said. "ID is trying to drag science into the supernatural and redefine what science is and isn't."
A "gut feeling" is not a scientific observation...
So very true!
Unless it is related to a stomache flu diagnosis!
DK
Jesus described this condition as deaf and blind.
Those who look but cannot see and listen but can not hear are often violently committed to their ignorance. They will dismiss without consideration what they will not understand.
They demand that their private little hell is the world's reality and nothing short of the fear of eternal death and damnation will drive them from their lair.
So, for the sake of their salvation, we preach their damnation, with as much love and gusto as we can summon.
It is a mighty work to witness to reality, especially in the face of all of the alternate realities being practiced. But, we know that there is one reality and only one and that keeps our feet on the path of truth.
Whereas creationism is usually associated with Abrahamic religions (Christianity, Judaism, Islam) there are other origin beliefs which stipulate an act of creation. Diests, for instance, who believe God created everything – or caused the beginning - and then withdrew from it, are creationists.
Although most people around here want to focus on Genesis, the biggest difference in Christian creationism is whether Adam was the first mortal man or the first ensouled man – based on the understanding of Romans 5:12-14 and I Cor 15:42-48.
One group of Christians believe that Adam was the first mortal man and therefore asserts that the physical evidence must support a young earth, about 6,000 years old in proper or absolute time. Many of the posters here and mainstream media are constantly trying to equate creationism to this particular group of young earth creationists evidently because archeological evidence, dating methods and the expansion of the universe make the young earth interpretaion an “easy target” for snide remarks and public ridicule. Such ridicule is silliness because in the first place most Christians are not young earth creationists. It is also silly because the young earth creationist view is a matter of faith which cannot be trumped by any physical evidence to the contrary anyway.
There is also a group which asserts that Adam was the first mortal man but believes that God created an “old looking” universe, 6000 years ago. This is called the Gosse Omphalos hypothesis. There is no scientific argument against this group, because there can be no scientific argument that God did not create ‘all that there is’ last Thursday. It is a “no bones about it” matter of faith.
There is yet another group which asserts that Adam was specially created in some unspecified manner and place, 6000 years ago. Thus he may or may not be the first mortal man (as compared to other creatures) but he would clearly be the first ensouled man. The assertion is vague and I’m confident any argument against it would be like stacking marbles.
Still another group, which includes the official Catholic view, asserts that Adam was the first ensouled man. It does not dispute the age of the universe or evolution theory and may actually represent the majority view among Christians. Many in this group self-identify as “theistic evolutionists” even though they obviously believe in creation.
My group may be the tiniest (but perhaps we are growing). We assert that God was the only observer of creation week and the author of Scripture and therefore the 6 days of creation must be viewed from the inception (beginning) space/time coordinates using inflationary theory and relativity. As physicist Gerald Schroeder has shown, using that formula, 6 equivalent earth days at the inception space/time coordinates is equal to approximately 15 billion years from our space/time coordinates. For those who wish to calculate it for themselves, Schroeder provides this tip:
Intelligent Design, on the other hand, is the hypothesis that ”certain features of the universe and life are best explained by intelligent cause rather than an undirected process such as natural selection.”
ID has no doctrine, no articles of faith, no Holy writ. It does not seek to explain “all features” only “certain features” thus it is not equivalent to “God created the universe”.
ID does not dispute that mutations and natural selection occur. It is not a replacement for the theory of evolution. Like the theory of evolution, it is not a theory of origins.
Moreover, ID does not stipulate the “intelligent cause”. It could be a natural phenomenon like an emergent property of self-organizing complexity or fractal intelligence. Or it could be an agent such as God, collective consciousness, aliens, Gaia, etc.
Orionblamblam, your argument is that Gerald Schroeder's statement is false because it is a combination which is precisely what I observed in my original post back at 17. It is time to end this shell game.
Metaphysical naturalists (atheists) cannot have it both ways - decrying combinations here and then using combinations to aver that this universe is equally possible in a field of 1080. If you want to go Bayesian to reduce the field wrt the protein, then you must do the same wrt the big bang.
Probability is like the complexity argument. Select a method and stick with it.
And I really don't care which mathematical model you choose (as long as it is mathematical and not descriptive) --- just be consistent.
It is much more than just "grist for the mill". I'm bookmarking it for me and hoping you'll copy it over to the Freeper Investigation project - I certainly agree with the connection to the Primary documents which are relevant to the change in the Supreme Court.
Thank you so very much for the post and for all the encouragements!
I agree strongly with your assessment of the situation - so many people without "ears to hear" or "eyes to see". These are people who willfully hunker down into a second reality of their own making.
These threads are ALWAYS far too serious, and generally too pompous.
Thanks for being here!
DK
Yes.
The guess that natural selection is random is a bias in favor of Marxist atheism.
There is no evidence of random selection whereas there is substantial evidence of directed selection. The colors of bird's feathers is my favorite demonstration of selection by choice, not chance.
Any time I can have an Alamo Girl thank me, I know I am going to be a
Dark Knight
Sleeping very contently.
Good night!
#3 What happens when you restrict your information sources to creationist sources rather than science sources?<rimshot>You get nothing but spin?
"It is dangerous because it has a philosophy Max, unlike you."
Videodrome, as best I recall it.
Marxism is destructive.
I heard Michael Crichton talk recently, and he avered that man needs a religion, and if he chooses atheism he will find a religion without a god. EcoNutism, Gaia, etc.
If there is a hole in a person's heart, someone or something will take advantage of it. Marxism is one of the worst, not only has it been proven destructive, but college professors continue to teach it as nondestructive.
DK
What is normal atheism?
Marxist atheism is the type practiced by socialists who politicize atheism. These are in evidence whenever discussions about public facilities and religion occur.
These folks would oppose teaching science in public schools if it were tied to religion.
Oh, that's right. Science and religion cannot coexist. I almost forgot.
Yeah, it's double plus bad.
a·nal·o·gy
1. comparison: a comparison between two things that are similar in some way, often used to help explain something or make it easier to understand
2. similarity: a similarity in some respects
Indeed, a declaration of randomness - without the qualifier that science cannot say a phenomenon is actually random in an undetermined system - is a bias towards metaphysical naturalism (atheism).
IMHO, it is a prime example of scientists with an ideological/political agenda "poaching" into theology/philosophy. If the community held to Bohr's epistemic cut these things wouldn't happen:
They, for instance would not say that random mutations – natural selection > species is a correct formulation of the theory of the evolution. Rather, they would say that variation – natural selection > species is correct.
This is very hopeful for a serious discussion of the intelligent design hypothesis because, of a truth, the hypothesis only addresses causation of “certain features”, i.e. that intelligent cause is the best explanation for certain features. Since animals are known to choose their mates, the feather color of birds may be a prime case-in-point as you say!
> Creationism is literally the belief that God created the universe.
And, as we see from this very thread... so is ID. There is no fundamental or practical difference between the two, except that IDers misuse scientific terminology to try to hide the true nature of ID... which is Creationism.
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