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Experts Say Faulty Levees Caused Much of Flooding
Washington Post ^ | Sept. 21, 2005 | Michael Grunwald and Susan B. Glasser

Posted on 09/20/2005 11:38:42 PM PDT by CobaltBlue

Louisiana's top hurricane experts have rejected the official explanations for the floodwall collapses that inundated much of New Orleans, concluding that Hurricane Katrina's storm surges were much smaller than authorities have suggested and that the city's flood- protection system should have kept most of the city dry.

With the help of computer models and visual evidence, scientists at Louisiana State University's Hurricane Center have concluded that Katrina's surges did not come close to overtopping those barriers.

* * * * Ivor van Heerden, the Hurricane Center's deputy director, said the real scandal of Katrina is the "catastrophic structural failure" of barriers that should have handled the hurricane with relative ease.

"We are absolutely convinced that those floodwalls were never overtopped," said van Heerden. * * * * Tuesday, researchers showed numerous indications that Katrina's surge was not as tall as the lakefront's protections. They showed a "debris line" that indicates the top height of Katrina's waves was at least four feet below the crest of Lake Pontchartrain's levees. They also pointed out how the breached floodwalls near the lake showed no signs of overtopping -- no splattering of mud, no drip lines and no erosion at their bases. They contended that the pattern of destruction behind the breaches was consistent with a localized "pressure burst," rather than widespread overtopping.

Their model indicates that most of the surge around the lake and its nearby canals was less than 11 feet above sea level, and that none of it should have been greater than 13 feet. The Army Corps's flood-protection system for New Orleans was designed to handle surges of more than 14 feet above sea level.

"This should not have been a big deal for these floodwalls," said oceanographer G. Paul Kemp. There's no way this should have exceeded the capacity."

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Government; News/Current Events; US: Louisiana
KEYWORDS: army; cary; construction; corps; engineers; floodwalls; katrina; levees
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To: DB
Did a barge or some other heavy floating object hit the levee wall and damage it?

If I'm not mistaken, there was a report of a loose barge in the 17th street canal during the storm. Another report said that a barge was sunk at the point of the breech. Wind and waves banging one of those big suckers against the flood wall couldn't possibly be a good thing for the structural integrity.

261 posted on 09/21/2005 6:41:49 AM PDT by Ditto ( No trees were killed in sending this message, but billions of electrons were inconvenienced.)
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To: bayourant

Geaux Tigers, indeed.

If ya'll decide to have a bite at the Chimes, please eat some of that good duck gumbo and think of me!

I am stuck up here in Yankee Land (Northern Virginia) dreaming of duck.


262 posted on 09/21/2005 9:08:12 AM PDT by CobaltBlue (Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.)
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To: DB
So are they - you CobaltBlue - going to sue the barge owner for billions because their barge got away in a category 4 hurricane, damaged a levee, and flooded part of a city???

The way a case like this works, you sue everybody, and let the court sort it all out.

The reason being, that once the case is going, you can take depositions and have experts examine things and prevent evidence from being destroyed. So, you sue them all as soon as you can.

They don't like it, but that's the way it has to be. Otherwise they destroy evidence and hide evidence and refuse to cooperate.

263 posted on 09/21/2005 9:14:59 AM PDT by CobaltBlue (Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.)
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To: visualops

We left New Orleans because of the corruption and the crime and the poverty and the illiteracy and a slew of other bad things you haven't even mentioned. One of them was fear of flooding, because of all the news reports that a hurricane would cause catastrophic flooding.

I love New Orleans, I miss New Orleans, and I hope they will rebuild better than ever.


264 posted on 09/21/2005 9:18:55 AM PDT by CobaltBlue (Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.)
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To: Poodlebrain
The New Orleans Levee Board's primary concern, as I recall it from my living in the city, was to keep the "undesirable elements" (blacks and teenagers)from the very upscale lakefront neighborhoods.

The Army Corps of Engineers is responsible for flood control in the region.

But you raise an interesting point. New Orleans is one of the places where the response to the melt-down of their city has been to build gated communities and get as far away from "those people" as possible.

Very much like the Third World.

People are free to live in a gated community if they choose to do so, but turning the rest of your city over to the criminals is a bad decision.

265 posted on 09/21/2005 9:24:10 AM PDT by CobaltBlue (Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.)
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To: jeffers
If you all will chill out long enough for me to finish, I'll put good data in your hands by the end of the week at the very latest, I promise.

Put me on your ping list, please.

My husband was just telling me that the Levee Board is said to have mis-spent a lot of money in the past.

We might see the Justice Department get involved and maybe some of these idiots will go to jail.

266 posted on 09/21/2005 9:35:14 AM PDT by CobaltBlue (Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.)
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To: river rat

There certainly are dumb lawsuits.

But then, I can't think of anything that has humans involved that doesn't have something dumb happen once in a while.


267 posted on 09/21/2005 9:37:13 AM PDT by CobaltBlue (Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.)
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To: CobaltBlue

My family has alot of history in NO, historic former family buildings may be trashed. I hope not. My folks love NO and visit often. Let's hope it does come back wiser for wear.


268 posted on 09/21/2005 9:48:15 AM PDT by visualops (www.visualops.com)
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To: js1138
I wonder if the lawyers have ever heard of sovereign immunity.

Of course we have. But Congress has waived sovereign immunity for some causes of action, and so have the various states.

Jumping through the hoops to get around sovereign immunity is part of the job.

269 posted on 09/21/2005 9:49:53 AM PDT by CobaltBlue (Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.)
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To: CobaltBlue
Louisiana's top hurricane experts ...

FWIW, I'd get a second opinion...

270 posted on 09/21/2005 9:51:00 AM PDT by mewzilla (Property must be secured or liberty cannot exist. John Adams)
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To: visualops

If you click on my profile, I have linked a couple of New Orleans blogs that are good.

Will link more as I run across them.


271 posted on 09/21/2005 9:51:20 AM PDT by CobaltBlue (Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.)
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To: CobaltBlue
The Army Corps of Engineers is responsible for flood control in the region.

It wouldn't be the first time federal money money has been used to enforce apartheid. Chicago doesn't have a lot of levees, but it has expressways which were routed for the purpose of separating blacks and whites.

272 posted on 09/21/2005 10:02:14 AM PDT by js1138 (Great is the power of steady misrepresentation.)
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To: js1138
Chicago doesn't have a lot of levees, but it has expressways which were routed for the purpose of separating blacks and whites.

Deliberately? I know that, when the highway boom was getting started, these things tended to be built through the poorest neighborhoods since the property was cheaper there, instead of planning what would be best in the long run.

My impression is that the canal and levee system in Louisiana tend to follow the natural terrain, more or less.

273 posted on 09/21/2005 10:12:22 AM PDT by CobaltBlue (Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.)
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To: CobaltBlue; StayAt HomeMother
My husband was just telling me that the Levee Board is said to have mis-spent a lot of money in the past.

So what you're saying is that your own husband will be a witness for the defense in this case you're "getting in on?"

274 posted on 09/21/2005 10:21:40 AM PDT by Howlin
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To: CobaltBlue

"The number one job of government is covering their ass. Doesn't matter if it's federal, state, or local, that's their primary goal and their number one product."

The number one job of government is controlling the people. If they have to cover their ass, fine. That's part of their job. Power and authority are not surrendered easily.


275 posted on 09/21/2005 10:26:39 AM PDT by B4Ranch (Reality: By the time you get your head together, your body's shot to hell.)
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To: CobaltBlue
Deliberately?

My wife was there when the Chicago expressway system was built. The Expressway was built along existing racial boundaries. You can't see this anymore, because most of the white people have moved to the suburbs.

I find this interesting, because I live in northeast Florida, and growing up we had black neighborhoods and white neighborhood intermingled like checkerboards. Now the divisions are invisible because all those old neighborhoods are integrated. The rich have their gated communities, but the middle and lower classes didn't split apart.

276 posted on 09/21/2005 10:29:12 AM PDT by js1138 (Great is the power of steady misrepresentation.)
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To: Howlin

Whatever.


277 posted on 09/21/2005 10:39:31 AM PDT by CobaltBlue (Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.)
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To: CobaltBlue

Non-responsive, Your Honor.


278 posted on 09/21/2005 10:41:00 AM PDT by Howlin
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To: js1138
I find this interesting

Me, too.

One of the things I like to do is look at old maps, to see how communities develop. Here in NoVA, most of the highways are along old roads, which were along old Indian trails, which were along ridges. Or along old railroad beds, which also followed old Indian trails.

279 posted on 09/21/2005 10:44:44 AM PDT by CobaltBlue (Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.)
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To: CobaltBlue
there's money in it for sure

you know everybody is searching for a deep pocket, and it doesn't get any deeper than Uncle Sugar.

I applaud your candid statements.

Lawyers (your everybody) are always looking for deep pockets, not justice.

My opinion of lawyers cannot get any lower, so it's refreshing to see a lawyer admit in a public forum that he or she is just a greedy parasite

280 posted on 09/21/2005 10:48:55 AM PDT by george wythe
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