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Challenged by Creationists, Museums Answer Back
The New York Times ^ | 9/20/2005 | CORNELIA DEAN

Posted on 09/20/2005 7:02:45 AM PDT by Right Wing Professor

ITHACA, N.Y. - Lenore Durkee, a retired biology professor, was volunteering as a docent at the Museum of the Earth here when she was confronted by a group of seven or eight people, creationists eager to challenge the museum exhibitions on evolution.

They peppered Dr. Durkee with questions about everything from techniques for dating fossils to the second law of thermodynamics, their queries coming so thick and fast that she found it hard to reply.

After about 45 minutes, "I told them I needed to take a break," she recalled. "My mouth was dry."

That encounter and others like it provided the impetus for a training session here in August. Dr. Durkee and scores of other volunteers and staff members from the museum and elsewhere crowded into a meeting room to hear advice from the museum director, Warren D. Allmon, on ways to deal with visitors who reject settled precepts of science on religious grounds.

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; US: Colorado; US: Nebraska; US: New York; US: North Carolina
KEYWORDS: creationuts; crevolist; crevorepublic; enoughalready; evobots; evonuts; museum
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To: js1138
I720 primes!
701 posted on 09/20/2005 9:36:45 PM PDT by js1138 (Great is the power of steady misrepresentation.)
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To: js1138

Ah, a trick question. No one has ever observed macroprojects, Mr. Smart Guy.


702 posted on 09/20/2005 9:37:03 PM PDT by general_re ("Frantic orthodoxy is never rooted in faith, but in doubt." - Reinhold Niebuhr)
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To: general_re

Not where I've worked anyway.


703 posted on 09/20/2005 9:39:04 PM PDT by js1138 (Great is the power of steady misrepresentation.)
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To: general_re

I worked on a macroproject once. At the time it was the largest single application development project using VB. I believe its budget, start date and delivery date are the same as the Big Dig.


704 posted on 09/20/2005 9:41:56 PM PDT by js1138 (Great is the power of steady misrepresentation.)
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To: js1138

That's not a macroproject, that's a bunch of people engaging in their own little microprojects, and nobody denies microprojects. Licking stamps, sharpening pencils, arranging the icons on their desktops, finishing TPS reports, making phone calls, et cetera - there's no macroproject there. Get real.


705 posted on 09/20/2005 9:48:28 PM PDT by general_re ("Frantic orthodoxy is never rooted in faith, but in doubt." - Reinhold Niebuhr)
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To: general_re
I doubt you really have a six year old daughter, but if you do, why use her here as part of your insult? I would not do that.

Based upon this and your other writings, I surmise your six year old daughter does not listen too much to you either.

Wolf
706 posted on 09/20/2005 9:57:55 PM PDT by RunningWolf (U.S. Army Veteran.....75-78)
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To: js1138
I believe its budget, start date and delivery date are the same as the Big Dig.

Visual Basic will do that.

707 posted on 09/20/2005 9:59:06 PM PDT by dread78645 (Sorry Mr. Franklin, We couldn't keep it.)
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To: RunningWolf

I care what you think because...? Oh, wait - I don't.


708 posted on 09/20/2005 10:06:31 PM PDT by general_re ("Frantic orthodoxy is never rooted in faith, but in doubt." - Reinhold Niebuhr)
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To: general_re
Okay likewise.

Either you don't have a daughter and are lying, or you are putting in a reference to your daughter to be used in an insult for all the Internet to see.

What does that say about you? Not good huh?

Wolf
709 posted on 09/20/2005 10:22:02 PM PDT by RunningWolf (U.S. Army Veteran.....75-78)
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To: PatrickHenry; LiteKeeper
Thank you, PH, for answer to LiteKeeper in your Post 646, while I was away from my computer.

It's the same argument over and over again, with the same players. Makes me very sad that no headway has been made in all these years. I am also quite uneasy that many seem to feel that evolution of species makes God something less than He really is.

I guess schools are not the only ones dumbing-down America.

710 posted on 09/21/2005 12:22:35 AM PDT by Aracelis
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To: Question_Assumptions
The problem is that school children often aren't taught to kick ideas around. They are taught speculative conclusions as if they are fact. It's not just in the areas of science. The same thing happens in history, literature, etc. A lot of the uncertainty and degree of speculation is hidden from students.

You spent a bit of time answering me, so you deserve a reply. I'm not being condescending, but please understand that this sort of argument leaves me exhausted and sick to my Soul, which is why I quit posting to many of these threads.

You are quite correct in that students (across the board) are not learning to think critically, but as far as your assertion that "uncertainty" is not being mentioned, I beg to differ.

My background is in the hard sciences, and "uncertainty" was ever present in lectures and lab. Now that I've embarked upon a new career in the "soft" sciences, I still find "uncertainty" to be a major portion of the curriculum.

Of course, this is at the college level.

It's certainly fair to claim that evolution is the "best guess" of science, but that's not how it's taught.

There are bad apples everywhere, but in the classes I have taught, and in the assertions I have made within these threads, Science is indeed our current "best guess".

711 posted on 09/21/2005 12:32:54 AM PDT by Aracelis
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To: RunningWolf; general_re
I doubt you really have a six year old daughter, but if you do, why use her here as part of your insult? I would not do that. Based upon this and your other writings, I surmise your six year old daughter does not listen too much to you either.

General_re has been posting here since 2001, and his commentary has been consistent. I see your account is fairly new. Welcome aboard.

712 posted on 09/21/2005 12:40:23 AM PDT by Aracelis (If you see me on another Crevo thread, please kick me.)
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To: RunningWolf
What does that say about you?

Perhaps English is not your first language. Let me spell it out for you - I d-o-n-t g-i-v-e a d-a-m-n. Nobody asked you for your opinion because nobody cares what you think, newb.

713 posted on 09/21/2005 4:02:47 AM PDT by general_re ("Frantic orthodoxy is never rooted in faith, but in doubt." - Reinhold Niebuhr)
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To: Aracelis
It's the same argument over and over again, with the same players. Makes me very sad that no headway has been made in all these years.

It's to be expected with the regular players, who cannot be explained by mere ignorance. I don't understand the cause of the dysfunction. It's clearly not a lack of information. Whatever intellectual defect produces adult creationism, it is sufficiently persistent to withstand the rational presentation of overwhelming evidence. I'm not aware of a remedy.

As you know, we don't debate them with any hope of effecting a cure; we do it for one another, and to demonstrate to the lurking world that there remains a strong streak of reason within conservatism.

714 posted on 09/21/2005 4:26:25 AM PDT by PatrickHenry (Disclaimer -- this information may be legally false in Kansas.)
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To: Right Wing Professor
Just to correct one typo, with was meant without:
There is no observation without a point of view to make it, and without an observation the nigh-infinite set of quantum state possibilities never resolves to one. So without points of view, the universe stops -- or rather: does naught be.

Yet we know there is, there be and was. So by that we know there is a point of view to be had -- and further that there is and was in great, ornately intricate and majestic all at once order -- a order that gives a man each breath by beat of his heart and lungs drawing in the just-so-correct percentage of oxygen. A loving order by that, a creator who sets all points of view before the viewers, and by their breaths so given gives them the mind and arts by which they too can create new views, and even points of view that realize new worlds.

Why are butterflies and flowers beautiful? Why do insects have multiple life-forms -- for in each stage, larval, pupa, adult would not a blunt Darwin-model would have some more adept singular form animal evolve to take that niche? What is beauty?
715 posted on 09/21/2005 4:29:17 AM PDT by bvw
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To: PatrickHenry

What is reason? Is it beautiful? And if not, why are you so proud of it? What is pride? Is pride beautiful? And if not. why do you preen in it?


716 posted on 09/21/2005 4:32:13 AM PDT by bvw
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To: bvw

You really believe this?

All things dull and ugly,
All creatures short and squat,
All things rude and nasty,
Each little snake that poisons,
Each little wasp that stings,
All things sick and cancerous,
All evil great and small,
All things foul and dangerous,
Each nasty little hornet,
Each beastly little squid--
Who made the spikey urchin?
Who made the sharks?
All things scabbed and ulcerous,
All pox both great and small,
Putrid, foul and gangrenous...

Seems like a rather odd belief to me.


717 posted on 09/21/2005 4:42:21 AM PDT by js1138 (Great is the power of steady misrepresentation.)
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To: js1138

Well, now, by that listing of the ugly, you've also by delineation defined beauty. For what makes one see "ugly or putrid" unless a great desire for beauty?


718 posted on 09/21/2005 5:11:39 AM PDT by bvw
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To: bvw

I just find it odd that you wish to believe in a designer, presumably a psychopathic alien, who deliberately created things that eat the eyes of children and infants.


719 posted on 09/21/2005 5:15:51 AM PDT by js1138 (Great is the power of steady misrepresentation.)
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To: js1138
I find it odd that you would seem to hold to a love of predeterminism. That is, YOUR perfect world would be all Christmas magic, sugar-tart perfect and candy-cane good 24/7 -- forever. What a nonsense perfection that would be.

You've already determined things in that perfection, for you'd have to allow no choices (by that I mean at the quantum mechanical wave-form resolution level) that would upset the candy-apple cart.

Me, I like the current "partnership". Minor partners we are, for sure, but still partners with a reason, and with the ability to have free will, to make mistakes.

720 posted on 09/21/2005 5:27:29 AM PDT by bvw
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