Challenged by Creationists, Museums Answer Back

The New York Times ^ | 9/20/2005 | CORNELIA DEAN

[Right Wing Professor]

ITHACA, N.Y. - Lenore Durkee, a retired biology professor, was volunteering as a docent at the Museum of the Earth here when she was confronted by a group of seven or eight people, creationists eager to challenge the museum exhibitions on evolution.

They peppered Dr. Durkee with questions about everything from techniques for dating fossils to the second law of thermodynamics, their queries coming so thick and fast that she found it hard to reply.

After about 45 minutes, "I told them I needed to take a break," she recalled. "My mouth was dry."

That encounter and others like it provided the impetus for a training session here in August. Dr. Durkee and scores of other volunteers and staff members from the museum and elsewhere crowded into a meeting room to hear advice from the museum director, Warren D. Allmon, on ways to deal with visitors who reject settled precepts of science on religious grounds.

[longshadow]

Heck, Lisa Randall, probably the most brilliant mind in its physics department,....

Excuse, me, but I believe there is an "Obligatory jpeg rule" in effect whenever her name is mentioned in an internet post. I hereby invoke the rule, and expect you to provide this thread with the requisite item. Your prompt cooperation will be greatly appreciated.

[DGray]

mob ( P ) Pronunciation Key (mb) n.
1. A large disorderly crowd or throng. See Synonyms at crowd1.
2. The mass of common people; the populace.
3. Informal.
1. An organized gang of criminals; a crime syndicate.
2. often Mob Organized crime. Often used with the: a murder suspect with links to the Mob.
4. An indiscriminate or loosely associated group of persons or things: a mob of boats in the harbor.
5. Australian. A flock or herd of animals.

tr.v. mobbed, mob·bing, mobs

1. To crowd around and jostle or annoy, especially in anger or excessive enthusiasm: Eager fans mobbed the popular singer.
2. To crowd into: Visitors mobbed the fairgrounds.
3. To attack in large numbers; overwhelm: The quarterback was mobbed by the defensive line.

Sorry, guys, but the word fits the situation just fine.

JohnnyZ, I apologize for hastily accepting the hypebolic suggestion that disrupting a religious class is tantamount to tossing a turd in the holy water. Now will you give it a rest?

[BeHoldAPaleHorse]

I was a docent, very briefly, at a natural history museum. This was my first (and last) day on the job.

I'd just barely started describing the first exhibit (the geologic column) when I got a question of dating fossils. "How can you date a fossil to millions of years back when Carbon-14 dating doesn't work beyond about 50,000 years or so?"

Me: "Radiocarbon dating is not the only technique used; other radioactive isotopes with much longer half-lives--"

Second questioner: "What about evolution violating the 2nd law of thermodynamics?"

Me: "If you'll let me fin--"

Third: "Didn't Professor Darwin recant his theory on his deathbed?"

Fourth: "Wasn't Charles Darwin a Bolshevik?" (I'm pretty sure this was what the guy said.)

First: "What about the Peking Man fraud?"

The tactic is simple: if the docent looks like he or she is answering the first question intelligently, salvo more questions until he or she hits task overload.

How this relates to God's message to man is beyond me, though.

[Diplomat]

From what I hear on this thread, the nasty mob threw feces at her, or something just as bad.

Hear from who, the evo's on this thread proving my point?

I could not find this allegation in the NYT article. If this happened, it would have been in their headline. This would be better than her getting assulted by these YECs to the NYT.

Again, the NYT is a lying extension of the DNC. Bashing Christians is their agenda.

[BeHoldAPaleHorse]

"I am arguing that, to some extent. They're dealing with the public. They can expect some to be hostile or rude. It's a peril of the job. Just a tough day's work."

Is it too much to ask loudly self-rightoeus "Christians" to act in a manner consistent with the ideas Christ expressed in the Semon on the Mount?

[antiRepublicrat]

The whole reason why this is so controversial is that a lot of supporters of evolution take their argument a step further and argue that evolution disproves God or any divine agency.

Those who do that are stepping out of the bounds of science and into philosophy and religion. That is wrong. It's the same as IDers trying to step outside the bounds of religion and into science.

[JohnnyZ]

Sorry, guys, but the word fits the situation just fine.

No, sorry, even your 4th string definitions are lacking.

JohnnyZ, I apologize for hastily accepting the hypebolic suggestion that disrupting a religious class is tantamount to tossing a turd in the holy water.

I'm not sure that's quite what it was, but I accept.

[Ignatius J Reilly]

"The remedy is not to destroy the cancer that is eating away at your brain. The remedy is to fix it."

Actually some very promising new cancer researchers are trying to do just that!!

[PatrickHenry]

I believe there is an "Obligatory jpeg rule" in effect whenever her name is mentioned in an internet post.

Lisa Randall studies particle physics and cosmology at Harvard University, where she is Professor of Theoretical Physics.

[JeffAtlanta]

Present all the information as theory, and not fact. Present supposition on the part of scientists as supposition, and not as hard and fast law.,

This statement displays a basic misunderstanding of the scientific meanings of the words "theory", "fact", and "law". Scientific theories do not graduate to become facts or laws - they are different totally different things. To that point, evolution is both a scientific fact and scientific theory.

The problem stems from the basic misunderstanding that layman have about the scientific method. From these threads, it appears that the anti-evolutionists think that scientists just guess at things and offer up opinions.

[Diplomat]

Typical leftist word games. You say mob just means group. Therefore it applies. I say it's an insult and implies criminality of the group in question.

You skipped the first two defintions from the 2nd set:

1. An organized gang of criminals; a crime syndicate. 2. often Mob Organized crime. Often used with the: a murder suspect with links to the Mob

Are these people criminals? Did they break any laws you are aware of?

Where's the 2nd definition 3 from your list?

You apply definition 4 "An INDISCRMINATE or LOSSELY associated group...

The article claims these were YECs, the evos very favorite type of Christian. YECs represent a small percentage of all Christians. This belief seems quite descriminate to me.

[Dimensio]

Don't say that the Grand Canyon was formed by the Colorado River over millions of years, as if there's no other opinion. Say that "most scientists think" that the Colorado River created the Grand Canyon. Don't present the evolution of man from ape as reality, but say "most scientists think" that man descended from animals.

Great idea! And when we speak of gravitational attraction, we don't say that objects with mass attract one another in relation to their mass and relative distances, we preface that with "most scientists think". And we make sure to add the disclaimer "most scientists think" when speaking of a heliocentric solar system.

[DGray]

With another guy, you agree that what the people are described as doing is rude and out of order. With me, you continue to take the position that what they are described as doing is OK. What is your actual position?

I'm not sure that's quite what it was, but I accept.

I think that you misunderstood the original context of the comparison. Someone said (paraphrased) that if a group of anti-religious people joined a class to learn about Christianity, not to learn but for the expressed purpose of bombarding the teacher with hostile questions, it would be disruptive and disrespectful, and tantamount to tossing a turd in the holy water. I went along with the comparison. That's what happened; I can't help it if you don't "get it."

[Mark Felton]

"Isaac couldn't explain some things about the orbits of the planets, and thought God did it. We later found out the scientific explanation."

So? God still did it. LOL. You postulate that because we learn how something works means that God is no longer responsible? Isaac credited God even for the things he understood.

This seems to be a consistent intellectual fallacy about the nature of God among those who view religion as some club for the ignorant. They think "ignorant" people need the idea of God to explain the mysteries of the universe because science hans't explained it.

People of faith however know that God is responsible for all things, even those that are well described by science.

God is not simply a "bookmark" for that which is unknown.

[Dimensio]

From these threads, it appears that the anti-evolutionists think that scientists just guess at things and offer up opinions.

That does seem to be the assumption of a lot of creationists. Problem is, no matter how often you explain what a "theory" is in the context of science, they still hold on to their assumptions and argue from their incorrect definition without even trying to explain what is wrong with evolution as it is.

[JohnnyZ]

With me, you continue to take the position that what they are described as doing is OK.

What they are described as doing is rude (perhaps unmannered is a better description, since it implies more ignorance of proper behavior on their part and less offense), but not nasty, and certainly not a mob.

[JeffAtlanta]

You skipped the first two defintions from the 2nd set:

Could we stop this tangent on word games? The fourth definition listed is just as valid as the first. By your post, it seems like you think that a word has to mean all of the listed definitions simultaneously - that is not the case.

It was clear that the original poster meant 'mob' in a non-violent but very annoying sense.

[js1138]

You are on topic. I am merely disagreeing with you.

[ohioWfan]

Well, I'm a layman, and so are the vast majority of people going to museums and National Parks.

Give accurate information, and don't present suppositions as facts.

[DGray]

I say it's an insult and implies criminality of the group in question.

No, a mob isn't automatically criminal. The context in which I use it is certainly derogatory, but not to suggest criminality. And frankly, I really don't care whether you agree, if or if you're offended by my use of the word. I think it fits the situation. Sue me if you don't like it.

You skipped the first two defintions from the 2nd set:

I didn't skip anything; I posted the whole definition. I simply highlighted the definitions that explained where I was coming from. Your attempts to tell me what I was really saying are a waste of my time and your energy.