Posted on 09/18/2005 11:45:50 AM PDT by anymouse
Exit polls showed conservative challenger Angela Merkel's party leading in German parliamentary elections Sunday but falling short of the majority she needed to form a center-right coalition as the nation's first female chancellor.
Gerhard Schroeder refused to concede defeat and said he could still theoretically remain in power if talks with other parties were successful.
"I feel myself confirmed in ensuring on behalf of our country that there is in the next four years a stable government under my leadership," he said to cheering supporters at his Social Democrat party headquarters.
But Merkel claimed her party received a mandate from voters to form a new coalition government to carry out her plan to mend frayed ties with the United States.
"What is important now is to form a stable government for the people in Germany, and we ... quite clearly have the mandate to do that," she said.
Both Schroeder and Merkel said they would talk to all parties except the new Left Party, a combination of ex-communists and renegade Social Democrats.
Sunday's vote centered on different visions of Germany's role in the world and how to fix its sputtering economy. Schroeder touted the country's role as a European leader and counterbalance to America, while Merkel pledged to reform the moribund economy and repair ties with Washington.
An exit poll by ZDF public television showed Merkel's Christian Democrats at 35.7 percent and the Social Democrats 33.6 percent. Merkel's preferred coalition partner — the pro-business Free Democrats — had 10.4 percent, while current Schroeder coalition partner Greens received 8.2 percent.
ARD public television showed near-identical results, with Merkel's party at 35.7 percent and the Social Democrats at 33.7 percent.
The Christian Democrats' projected totals were considerably worse than expected. Merkel's party consistently polled above 40 percent during the campaign.
The results open a period of uncertainty as the parties negotiate to form a government. Voters were choosing lawmakers for the 598-seat lower house of parliament, which elects the chancellor to head the government.
Had Merkel reached a majority with the Free Democrats, they would have formed a center-right government to push through her proposals to get the economy going and cut unemployment by making it easier for small firms to fire people, cutting payroll taxes and giving companies more flexibility to opt out of one-size-fits-all regional wage agreements.
If she does become chancellor, she likely will have to water down her program as she partners with a party to her left in order to hold 50 percent of the seats in parliament. Merkel's party already controls the upper house of parliament.
The most likely combination, analysts have said, is a "grand coalition" between Merkel's party and Schroeder's party. Most predictions were that Schroeder would not participate in such a government, but his defiant statements Sunday cast doubt on that.
Free Democrats leader Guido Westerwelle said his party would not work with the current government pair, the Social Democrats and Greens.
If the new parliament cannot elect a chancellor in three tries, President Horst Koehler could appoint a minority government led by the candidate with a simple majority.
Merkel's plan to patch up relations with Washington, which frayed after Schroeder's refusal to back the U.S. invasion of Iraq in 2003, resonated with voters, as did her position that Turkey should not be allowed full membership in the 25-nation European Union.
"A country like Turkey just doesn't belong in the European community," said voter Torsten Quade, 41. "We're already going to let in countries like Romania and Bulgaria, and this is already too much because of how far behind they are."
But other voters said they supported Schroeder's party because he kept Germany out of the Iraq war and pushed for diplomacy to resolve concerns about Iran's nuclear program. Germany is one of three nations representing the EU in talks with Tehran.
"When you have a son coming of military age, this makes it even more important to vote for a government that isn't eager to go to war," said Stefan Deutscher, a 38-year-old business consultant voting in Berlin.
Schroeder called for the election a year ahead of time in frustration at resistance to his attempts to fix Europe's biggest economy, as unemployment hit record highs in his seven years in power and growth was sluggish. His limited measures cutting taxes and long-term jobless benefits have been slow to show convincing results.
The New Left Party won't be touched by Schroeder because they are his political enemies who deserted the SPD.
Merkel won't touch the New Left Party because they are mainly hard line far leftists. In the US it would be like Bush the Republican going into a coalition with the American Communist Party. It isn't going to happen.
Probably buys his groceries at the nearest military commisary.
That was one of the best postings that I have ever read anywhere.
Probably something equivalent to cruel and unusual punishment.
Good news from Germany after election!
I'd prefer a clear victory for Mrs.Merkel BUT the fact is that FRANCE AND GERMANY the two "leaders" of the old Europe expecting to lead the whole Europe are in big crisis.The deutch society seems to be paralyzed...
Those two countries are also the most oposed to USA policy.
Then the strongest personality today in Europe is T.BLAIR,it's a big oportunity for UK,POLAND,NEDERLAND,scandinavian countries...
I'm not sure what you mean.
The romanticism of gemeineschaft was a big part of the national SOCIALIST party's appeal, and I assume that one important reason that the NSDAP is still banned 60 years after it's last legal meeting is the entirely reasonable fear that if it were permitted it would be popular.
You really don't have to defend yourself against any fool with a stupid accusation.
I think it is unfair to assume this person doesn't have a job. The post history clearly indicates that this European has a steady job with the Internet Spelling Police and is generously volunteering to police the FR for spelling errors while trying to pretend that the Nazis weren't socialists. ;-)
Productivity and unemployment.
“88% of people in Germany are also quite busy, and statistically have a higher productivity per capita than US employees, so don't be so patronising.” You said.
Well, let me refer you to an official .gov UK site. Of course they are in collusion with the “Cowboy’s” cooking the books to show that America has such a high productivity. :)
http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=160
Fact is if you want I can give you DOZENS of credible sources that claim quiet the opposite of what you state. The productivity in the US is HIGHER than ANY European state. But that’s not all! Even if you look at the actual output per unit of time (Not GDP divided by employed labor force) in certain industries, the US beats nearly anyone out there.
On average the American works nearly 60 hours per year more than the average German. Less holidays and longer work weeks combined with less annual leave gives you nearly 1 ½ weeks of work more per employee per year.
More elderly or younger people are in the labor force where in Germany they are mandatory retired. More women are in the labor force as well.
Unemployment is at about 5.6% vs. 12% for Germany, which does cook the books to make it show better than it really is. Long term unemployed taking 1 Euro jobs ( http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,1564,1416143,00.html ) and in retraining programs are not counted in their unemployment statistic as certain other “exclusions” as well.
"Iraq and all these things are no real issue in germany anymore. Nobody really cares about Iraq including myself." You say
WRONG:
Schroeder made Iran into an issue in 2005. He even "Warned" the US of trying to solve the Iran issue with a military option. The SPD DID use the Iraq war in their election bid extensively in 2005 as well.
http://www.bild.t-online.de/BTO/news/2005/09/16/wahlkampf__pervers/wahlkampf__pervers__spd__usa.html
“i am sure you will present a link and showing some numbers i will do the same.
Do you know when Greece and Portugal joined the EU and so who should deny their right to travel?” You said
Most people in Greece and Portugal do not have the financial means to travel to Germany. They are overwhelmingly poor as a nation and tourism FROM Portugal is not common. Up until 1989 not many people from Bulgaria or Romania were allowed to travel to the US or anywhere in the West. Of course MOST of the former East block countries, while they are rapidly improving are also poor, and they too can not afford to have an average family travel to London. Let alone the US! Look at what an average Slovak makes, even today!
“I believe you make a lot of friends when you travel around the world and you must do that very often according to your knowledge of europe and europeans. Just stay as you are and keep your prejudices alive.” You say
I actually do make a lot of friends where ever I go. Of course the Germans on Ibiza on a drunken orgy, or in Thailand (On a Bumsflug) or elsewhere also make a lot of friends. Ask the Spanish tourism secretary. Of course the flourishing sex tourism in Jamaica from Germany is also overlooked. Yes, you make many friends too.
Yes, I will be back in your neck of the woods on 11 OCT 05. :)
Red6
Thanks Red6...I appreciate the facts and clarity of your posts, and the silence from Lord Haw Haw..I mean Ukman, is deafening.
First off, I must admit rather sheepishly that when I added that throwaway remark about productivity I didn't check my facts first. I'd already posted before I did a Google search and found that US productivity is indeed higher. Per capita productivity PER HOUR is also higher in the USA, but not by as much. However, I didn't then post a correction myself because of the advanced hour and because I fully expected to find this morning a raft of statistics to contradict me - and here it is. Thanks for your trouble. However, it's not really relevant to my argument anyway.
I accept that Americans work harder and longer hours, with less holidays, and that more elderly people and women are working in the US. Whether this is a good thing for your society is open to debate - but it's your country, after all. I have also never disputed that unemployment and excessive social programs are harmful to the German economy. Almost everyone here agrees this is the case.
You're absolutely correct that the Left party a.k.a. PDS a.k.a. SED raked in a lot of votes: about 25% in the old GDR and about a whacking 4.5% in the old FRG. The old GDR is a problem, of course. Over 85% of people in Germany overall voted for the established parties. So your point is...?
BTW , SPD means Sozialdemokratische Partei Deutschlands. The CSU (slightly right of the CDU) means Christlich Soziale Union. You're getting the two mixed up, a harmless mistake.
CDU is the Christlich Demokratische Union. The two Nazi parties call themselves National Democrats and Republicans. What's in a name, eh?
As I said in my post, it's quite true that the Nazis lifted elements from socialist theory to get German workers on their side. Social security goes back to the Kaiser's and Bismarck's time (1880s I think)- those two were notorious Socialists. Helping the less well-off in this way was a German tradition, which not coincidentally helped defuse popular discontent with the elites in power although it didn't alway work, of course - as in 1919, 1932, 1953).
You're correct the Nazis had a command-driven economy. However, Germany under the SPD never did. Obviously not Socialists, then.
You keep on harping on that Germans are socialists = Nazis. I have no truck with either. Both the SPD and the CDU subscribe in varying degrees to the "social market economy" - i.e. the market operates without undue state interference, and the less fortunate get welfare so they're not reduced to crime or begging if they are handicapped or jobless or old. This isn't particularly controversial in Germany. In fact, you (still) have something like this in the USA, don't you?
Germans get irate of course about excessive benefits to wasters and about benefit fraud, and the govt. fights a constant battle to ensure that the undeserving don't sponge off the rest of us. Both the main parties are committed to cutting back social programs, it's only the details of these cutbacks that are at issue.
I'll say it once more and for the last time. Nobody here is defending socialism; but Germans do defend the social market economy, and they make a very sharp distinction between the two.
And also for the last time. Nazis are not socialists, whatever sources you quote to back up this ludricous assertion.
Right, back to work.
Have you got anything useful to add?
If not, toddle off and find a newspaper, and draw Hitler moustaches on photos of Democrats. That'll show 'em.
Just a quick thing: I concur with Stefan that nobody here is really interested in Iraq. IRAN cropped up once or twice, as you said (two different countries, BTW) and over in the east there was that distasteful poster, but frankly "it was the economy, stupid". I don't remember Iraq being mentioned in any speeches or campaign leaflets of any party.
>the entirely reasonable fear that if it were permitted it would be popular<
This is nonsense. The NSDAP's not-yet-banned successor parties (NPD, Republicans, DVU, whatever they call themselves) barely registered on the electoral scale.
ISP hereby certifies that your posting is free of orthographical errors. It refrains from any comment on the substance.
Again your ignorance/arrogance is apparent.
MANY MANY Americans speak and write another language. Unlike Germany where it's highly structured, many Americans speak different languages. Spanish, which you list as a language we should learn is the most taught foreign language in the US.
Just because everyone in Germany goes through a cookie cutter education system where all end up with a similar structured education learning the same things does not make it any better. In the US we have a plethora of foreign languages that are taught, unlike Germany.
In fact, this is one of our strengths in reality. In one Battalion, 1-36IN we had Arab, German, French, lots of Spanish, Polish, Russian, Korean, Italian, French, Chinese, Philippino and other languages present. We took advantage of this in Iraq. Question, if the BW deployed to the Middle East, how many Arabic speakers “organic” to the unit would you have? How many Spanish speakers would you have that you could use in Columbia in counter narcotics operations? How Many people would the BW have that can speak the languages in Africa? We use this strength to our advantage every day.
Just because every American can’t speak German, does not make foreign language unimportant in the US. But I suggest you look around once and see how many DIFFERENT languages are spoken. German speakers? Yes there are some, but not that many.
Red6
Locust Capitalism and lists of US firms- Muntefering
US Caskets- SPD
Iran flap by Schroeder
and more
But sure, the political left didn't play the anti-American card. It's unimportant. Maybe to you it is unimportant, but then again, you probably don't represent the majority, as most Germans or even conservative Europeans in this forum.
Red6
Well, I think I have my ear close enough to the ground in Germany, almost as a neutral and dispassionate observer. Whether I'm right is something others will have to address.
The stuff you mentioned wasn't particularly important in the campaign.
Six in the evening, have to go.
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