India likely to vote with U.S. on Iran in IAEA

India Defence ^

[Abbas Razza Khan]

India likely to vote with U.S. on Iran in IAEA URL: http://www.india-defence.com/reports/377 Date: 17/9/2005 Agency: The Hindu

India will vote with the United States, France, Britain and Germany in the International Atomic Energy Agency's (IAEA) board of governors if forced to make a choice on referring the question of Iran's nuclear intentions to the United Nations' Security Council.

Highly-placed South Block sources told The Hindu that such a decision to vote with the U.S. in a crunch situation was taken even before Prime Minister Manmohan Singh went into a meeting with U.S. President George W. Bush in New York.

At this bilateral meeting Iran is said to have come up for discussion.

Backing off

According to reports from New York, it appears that the U.S. and the European Union "three" are backing off from asking the IAEA's board to refer Iran to the Security Council on September 19 itself.

The board is meeting in Vienna on Monday,

In such a scenario, where the E.U. "three" Foreign Ministers have had diplomatic contacts with the new Iranian leadership in New York, it appears that India will not immediately be called upon to vote one way or another in the IAEA board.

[Lejes Rimul]

You are arguing with me because of your extreme ignorance of the Moghul Era, when Indian notables spoke Farsi.

[penelopesire]

and u r arguing with me due to your 'extreme' ignorance of India,the history,the language, the religion. Even though I have slapped u down three or four times..u still persist...lol. AS General Honore might say: Are You Stuck on Stupid? Now u have changed the whole premise of your argument by implying we were arguing over Indian 'notables' in history that spoke Farsi...lol..I am telling U..that INDIAN 'ELITES' NEVER SPOKE FARSI..THEY SPEAK HINDU..A DERIVATIVE OF SANSKRIT..handen down by the Aryan 'invaders'. U are stuck on the stupid on stupid and the Moghul 'invasion' which came a century or so after.

[Brian Allen]

<< India likely to vote with U.S. on Iran in IAEA >>

If that is true it will be a welcome move in the right direction.

But there's still a very very very long way to go given India's track record of having, for almost sixty years, in international forums, including at the UN, voted more than 80% of the time against America's interests.

We live in prayer -- and hope.

Blessings -- Brian

[SlamIslam]

Interestingly 'Farsi' as word in hindi language is used to connotate something which cant be generally understood. Similar to the use of word 'Greek' in English language (Eg. What you say is all greek to me)

I dont know where you come from, but alognwith poor knowledge you have a bad attitude as well, lethal combination ;)

[SlamIslam]

During Mughal (thats how it ougth to be spelled) era Farsi was a language for literature (official variety) for writing biographies and chronicles, commoners spoke hindi (though in a very different form than today), the court language (official language for official records, judiciary etc..) was Urdu, a cross of Farsi and Hindi.

Might sound funny but the elites always try to speak a language people dont understand, probably thats what makes them elite.

[SlamIslam]

During Mughal (thats how it ougth to be spelled) era Farsi was a language for literature (official variety) for writing biographies and chronicles, commoners spoke hindi (though in a very different form than today), the court language (official language for official records, judiciary etc..) was Urdu, a cross of Farsi and Hindi.

Might sound funny but the elites always try to speak a language people dont understand, probably thats what makes them elite.

[sagar]

Indian elites during the Mughal era spoke Urdu, which is a mix of Hindi, Arabic/Islamic influenced Persian(thus, not Farsi), Arabic, and Turkic. Mughal empire had impact on the Muslims of India than on Hindus.

Most Muslim elites of India are Mughal descendents(and ethnically Afghanis) and have surname like Khan. Hindu elites, on the otherhand, are Aryan descendents.

Interestingly, both have the genetic marker R1a, which is found in India, Central Asia, and in Black Sea countries like Urkraine and Poland. Vikings and Norsemen also bore that marker.

Kurgan hypothesis says that IndoEuropeans migrated from their homeland around the Black Sea to south to Iran and India(Aryans). They would also migrate to west to become Greeks and Italic tribes. Later, they migrated to North and West to become Vikings and Norsemen, and so on. Well, that is the mainstream stuff.

[Lejes Rimul]

I mean this in the nicest possible way, but you're very stupid and don't belong on Free Republic. Please at least do a better job of pretending to know what you're talking about before you troll. Good bye.

[Gengis Khan]

<< India likely to vote with U.S. on Iran in IAEA >>

If that is true it will be a welcome move in the right direction.

But there's still a very very very long way to go given India's track record of having, for almost sixty years, in international forums, including at the UN, voted more than 80% of the time against America's interests.

We live in prayer -- and hope.

 

Brian, thanks for the ping.

 

However I am going to have to disagree with you here. I am sorry whatever I am about say might anger a lot of people here, most here at FR would disagree with me but I would like you to know that this is how India thinks.

 

America's demand that we strike off relation with Iran is unfair, unjustified and undeserving. It (US) is asking for too much of a price for friendship with India. I am afraid India is unlikely to give into such silly demands. This is not how "India" functions. We are not Pakistan to switch sides and ditch ol' time allies overnight to derive material gains from US (as the Pakistanis did with Taliban). India is no client state of the US and we dont intend to be one if thats your idea of an "alliance". Washington does not make decisions on our foreign policy. I am sorry we do not give into this kind of arm twisting.

 

Iran is a great friend of India and we have excellent relation with Iran. Iran is also among the only true ally we have in the Islamic world. It would be a very sad day to see India voting against Iran (even when they have been a good friend of our) only to please our American suitors. Notwithstanding America's (HRWOT) hollow rhetorical war on terrorism such "you are either with us or with the terrorists" the US itself chooses to keep allies like Pakistan that has broken every law in the book (and Saudi Arabia) and asks of us to give up on Iran. US wanting India to join the "US lead international bandwagon" to tighten the screws on Iran to make it back down from Nuclear fuel processing does not make for a very convincing case to Indian ears as long as US grants billions of dollars of military and monetary aid and advance weaponry to Pakistan which virtually ran an international nuclear walmart and Iran itself being among its list of prime beneficiary.

 

India has no moral right to advise Iran not to build nuclear weapons when we(India) ourselves have violated the norms of NPT and went on to built the bomb.The Iranians essentially hold the same position on NPT (that its an unfair and discriminatory regime aimed at creating and maintaining a divide between the haves and have-nots) that we held for so long. It seems our spineless Congress government is ready to bend over backwards to please the US government even as the US itself is neither ready nor willing to concede anything in favour of India. The US has so far only dangled the "nuclear technology" carrot (which is facing stiff opposition in the US Senate and seems unlikely to be ratified) and moreover its not ready to support India's bid for a permanent seat at the UN as it does incase of Japan. Incase of Kashmir issue (the less said the better), the US is outrightly helping Pakistan as Condoleezza Rice calls on Dr. Singh to accept more of Pakistani demands. And its for this reason the (otherwise pro-US) BJP and NDA alliance is now against the Indo-US deal, the leftist are already against the US and that leaves the Congress. Should American arm twisting continue then I doubt there would be any Indian political party left supporting the US. In my opinion, if India is not in a position to vote in favour of Iran then we must abstain, but definitely no vote in favour of US. Not unless the US is ready to accept our demands.

 

Brian, we never voted for (or against) American interests but only in favour of Indian interests and thats how it will remain for the next 60 years.

 

 

 

 

Indo-US Issues Ping.

Freepmail me if you want on/off.

[voletti]

Point taken.

My issue is with the broad use of the word 'elite'. In the provinces and the princely states of pre-brit India, most royal families that were hindu, even under Mughal dominion, spoke the regional tongue - A sanksritized local dialect in most cases - precursorsa to today's Idian languages like Marathi, Tamil, Bengali or even, Hindi.

The only 'elite' who might've stubbornly stuck with farsi or tom-tommed its supposed superiority over Sanskrit based language would be the original mughal invaders 9babar and his ilk) who'd invaded out of Persia and central Asia. These invading marauders - who later established the mughal dynsaty in delhi were a small proportion of India's social elite, as it was, even then.

[Lejes Rimul]

Your point is taken as well.

Certainly, one should avoid inferring from what I said that all Indian notables spoke Farsi, but the fact does remain that it was one of the court languages, and many educated Moghuls prided themselves on their ability to compose Farsi poetry, etc. It's similar to how, until about a century ago, few Western elites would consider themselves truly educated until they had at least some familiarity with Greek and Roman.

The crux of my comment was that there are certain cultural links between the two nations that aren't easily grasped simply by a surface analysis of "Iran is Muslim and Persian, India is Hindu and Indian."

[CarrotAndStick]

Exactly. The word 'Iran' itself is another for 'Aryan', which is a Sanskrit word. A lot of people fail to see that Iran isn't an Arab nation. And a lot more are unaware how unpopular the mad mullahs really are in Iran itself, among the youth of Iran. In fact, many are

[CarrotAndStick]

... here to attest to that on FR itself, risking their lives to post on FR, from Iran!!!

[razoroccam]

Unfortunately Gengis, you are wrong on four critical issues:

1. Iran is not a friend of India. Start with Nadir Shah, through the Shah of Iran (who gave money to Pakistan) to present day Iran (which pressures India every time a Muslim in India, even a terrorist, sneezes)

2. Iran was and is a signatory to the NPT, India is not. Therefore, India's building the bomb was not breaking the rules of NPT. Iran would be breaking the NPT regulations.

3. You cannot equate Iran's acquisition of nuclear weapons to that of India. Iran has offered nuclear technology to all Muslim countries. How often has India offered to share its nuclear knowhow?

4. India is being short sighted about the gas pipeline. How long would gas from Iran take care of India's needs? And how easily would it be held hostage to upheavals in Pakistan and Iran? In contrast, nuclear plants offered by US would help India without having to rely on unstable supply issues. As long as it doesn't piss off Australia (i.e. they can keep winning cricket matches, but with the team we have, that should be no problem)

[ulmo3]

I think the present US administration in general and Indians as a whole have become more pragmatic and less idealistic over these things.

The days when Indians thought US should have supported India because it was a democracy (naive werent they) is over. Same thing for Americans who couldnt understand why a democracy would be close the Soviet Union (naive too here).

I think the current relationship is more robust because it is based on self interest and not ideals. Ideals are all good but when self interest comes into the picture they are very quickly dicarded by one and all.

So I have more hope for India - US relationship now than before, just because it is in both India and USA to be friendly to each other.

It doesnt mean all irritants will vanish they will be around but they will be "managed", by the old method carrots and sticks.

Remember though US is much more richer/powerful than India, India has a lot of carrots and might have a few sticks too. If India did not have the carrots US would not be interested in a relationship with Democracy or not.

[ulmo3]

lol that was way too funny.

Lejes Indians did nto speak Farsi they spoke Urdu which is different from Farsi or Persian. Urdu is a mixture of Hindi and Persian. Urdu literally means "camp language" it was a way for the Muslim and Hindu soliders to communicate.

So though Urdu has the same script has Farsi or Persian it has some words which are from Hindi (Prakrit to be exact which was the ancient version of Hindi).

Penelopesire Hindi comes from Sanskrit just like English is derived from Latin (am i correct, if I am wrong correct me) is more closer to Sanskrit than English is to Latin.
Same script

[ulmo3]

Aryans werent blue and blond eyed (that was Hitlers version). Aryans were people from central asia who migrated east to India and west to Europe.

The ones in India became brown eyed and black haired while the ones in Europe decided to be more colorful and thus became colored :)

[ulmo3]

We are not signatories to NPT so we cannot violate NPT when we never agreed to it in the first place

[swarthyguy]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4485523.stm

India's Iranian cafes fading out

By Jayshree Bajoria
BBC News, Mumbai



Many of the cafes have shut up shop due to competition
The Iranian cafes in the western Indian city of Mumbai (formerly Bombay) have long stood out from other city eateries - but their days could be numbered.

With their red and white checked tablecloths, straight backed wooden chairs and the aroma of freshly baked bread and sweet cake, the cafes are an indelible part of Mumbai's cosmopolitan heritage.

But all this may well become a thing of the past.

Having withstood a century of change, the cafes are feeling the heat in Mumbai's fiercely competitive food market.

Many of the so-called Irani cafes are getting a complete makeover and becoming pubs or restaurants. Others are simply shutting up shop.


And so it goes. Increasing prosperity wipes out a landmark institution.

[Gengis Khan]

This is for all of you.

Lejes Rimul is correct. Indian elites spoke Farsi and we did so FOR AT LEAST A THOUSAND YEARS! We Indians "officially" spoke in Farsi since the invasion of Mahamud Ghori and till the reign of the last Mughal Emperor of India (Bahadur Shah Zafar) who was deported to Burma by the British. And NO, Urdu was NEVER the official language in the court of Delhi. (It was the official language in the court of Nawab Ali Wardi Khan, Nawab of Lucknow).

Guys, we are missing a very important chapter of our history here. While the general masses of India spoke in derivatives of Hindi/Hindustani/Urdu or other native vernaculars depending on the geographical region, "official" India under Delhi without exception always spoke in Farsi and did so for a thousand years until it was replaced by English by the British. The Mughal Empire had ALL it official documents called "farmans" printed in Farsi. Every single text engraved on the walls of historical monuments of the time were written in Farsi. The great poet Amir Khusro wrote poetry and couplets in Farsi roughly a few centuries after Omer Khyiayam of Persia. Urdu was a far more recent language by comparison. The Hindustani language commonly spoken in northern India and Pakistan derives 70% of the words from Farsi and remaining from Sanskrit. Not just the Islamic rulers but also Rajputs, Jats, Dogras, Marathas and Sikhs officially used Farsi inside court rooms (as we do with English now).

In fact Mughal Emperors were very much recent invaders considering the time-line of Indian history. Muslims rule over northan India had already been well established for hundreds of years before the Mughals who were the decendents of the Mongol warriors. Babur was the decendent of Tamerlane from maternal side and decendent of (yours truly) Gengis Khan from father's side. (Don't argue with me on this).

Modern India has completely forgotten Farsi and like Sanskrit, its today a dead language and not spoken by anybody in India. English has replaced Farsi as the language of the elites. Modern version of Hindi has about 60% words of Farsi (along with Arabic and turkic) and remaining is Sanskrit. Hindi today is the descendant of Sanskrit and Farsi.

One last thing.......ancient India, before the arrival of Islam (i.e during the Vedic era and there after during the Buddhist era) Sanskrit was only the official language. It was never commonly spoken. Prakrit was always the spoken version of Sanskrit for the commoners. Sanskrit was for the elite Brahmans. Under Buddhist era the commonly spoken language was Pali and Ardha Maghadhi.

The ancient language of Persia was Zend Avestan.

PS: None of the historical ties have anything to do with the present Indo-Iranian relation.

Cheers,