Posted on 09/14/2005 3:32:33 PM PDT by HairOfTheDog
How in the world does the "political subject" connect to the increasingly caustic environment here on FR? That, I believe, is part of what Hair was talking about.
Hair, the sad thing is, I feel a goodly number of them never question themselves.
I must have missed it all - been busy IRL a lot and not on FR much - can you give me a synopsis of what happened please?
Lots of black bashing. Very distateful.
They were great and are great people and excellent FReepers, and they will be back, imo.
FR is more than like your favorite ice cream flavor, it can be your wisest and best friend.......... you must come back to it or he or she.
But, in my one and only "get together" with the second FReeper noted, I found that he had a very thin skin at that time. Now, that happened just a couple of weeks ago, so maybe he was right on the edge of disillusionment and was irritated by many things. I don't know, but here's one relatively new FReeper who has been reading here for over six years, and I hope they come back......... and SOON! Because FR is the greatest site in the country, and they are needed here.
Thanks for posting this thread. I haven't been as frequent a visitor to FR lately because of some medical issues so I was just now catching up on the thread where rdb3 and mhking stated their frustrations and intentions to leave.
In reading that thread I came to the conclusion that quite a few of the posters don't realize how racist they sound. It may be because they actually are racist or it may be they don't realize how their posts come across as an us vs. them post.
Some people suggested when the people were turned away that they find a different route. Almost as if it's as simple as putting your car in reverse and driving in a different direction. Not so easy to do when one has been walking in heat, humidity and bugs for a couple of miles.
Others suggested there were businesses, shops and grocery stores in areas that weren't underwater. The question wasn't asked or answered about whether there were employees able to make it in to staff these places or whether the posters were unwittingly encouraging looting.
Other's blamed people for not evacuating before and for waiting until after the hurricane was gone. They forget the levees didn't fail until after Katrina had blown on through. Or they fail to think people saw things getting worse after Katrina moved on and they chose to leave then.
I'm like you in that there have been times in my adult life when I haven't been perfectly prepared. Sometimes I didn't see something coming when it should have been obvious to me. Other times it would have been financially impossible for me to do other than what I did. (And no, I never did anything immoral or illegal.)
Mike, I had written you a freepmail before I saw this thread. rdb3, I hadn't yet written you a freepmail because I found this thread and am responding here. I don't want either of you to leave. I enjoy both of your perspectives on differing topics. I hope you reconsider.
They are unworthy of all kinds of things, I heartily agree. But the good FReepers that these festering attitudes are driving away are worthy of something more than our apathy.
Yes, it will be, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't help the people who can truly USE the help and could get a leg up with this.
It has been amusing to see folks on TV being surprised that there were poor people in New Orleans. They're used to seeing the city as Party Central, and they have gauzy notions of the French Quarter, the Garden District, Mint Juleps and spanish moss swaying in the breeze. In truth, that city has had it's own pathologies for years! My Aunt used to take her seven kids, and my sister and me to Mardi Gras every year back in the mid 60's to the early 70's. We knew even then that there were areas right on the edge of the French Quarter that you just did NOT wander into. That 'criminal element' has been there for years, and they preyed on everyone, poor people included. Those poor people decided long ago that the police didn't care what happened to them because even if they DID call with a complaint, nothing ever happened, then the thugs would come back and go after the complainers. After a while, those people just gave up. That's where the attitudes of the looters of non-essential things was born. Doesn't make their actions right, but it does explain why they felt free to do what they did.
Hair has seen these people in her work. I grew up with them, white and black, and there is a mind-set that folks who were given a different set of values have a hard time understanding, unless they've lived with or near it. It would never occur to us to accept grinding poverty as something we can never overcome, but many of the people we saw in New Orleans have done so because they've never known anything else. They've never had the opportunity to make something of themselves, or they haven't been in the position to take advantage of any opportunity that might have presented itself. They just didn't recognize it, or their attitudes had steeled them against it.
We, who do not live in that mind-set, see education as a way to get out of that lifestyle. Unfortunately, the public school system has failed the poor in large urban areas, and even if the kids DO bother to graduate, many are ill equipped to go on to higher education. Most just drop out because they don't see the need for further education. Again, their mind-set does not see education as a benefit, and it is frustrating because though they WANT the finer things in life, many don't see the connection between education and actually GETTING those things.
I see in this tragedy, a real opportunity for many of New Orleans' poor families. While they were in the city, they were mired in that mind-set and the poverty it produced. They didn't have opportunities, so they couldn't move out of the projects, or they were stuck in such low end jobs that they kept falling back further into the hole. The political climate didn't help, either. Now, for the first time in their lives they are free of that bondage, and are being offered a way out. Many will take it, and they and their families will never look back. This would be the silver lining to the cloud. Some will squander it because they either can't or won't change their attitudes. We can only continue to offer help in the hopes that one day, they'll change that attitude.
BTW. Good post, Hair!
I think it's important to realize, that the people evactuated include a lot more than just those on welfare before the storm, but will be now.
There are many working people who would not have the cash or credit to just evacuate out to a hotel indefinately. Especially because they haven't just lost their house... their job too - gone. This level of damage is unprecidented in our history. As yet invisible are all those who ~did~ leave on their own and stayed in a hotel somewhere... who are also now without a job. We haven't seen them yet but I know there's got to be a lot of them out there too, quietly running out of money. How scary that would be.
It's going to be really expensive, but I don't really see as we have much choice. This is a huge and urgent need. Some of it will be wasted, but some of it won't. Not much we can do about that.
So true! I have an older sister and an older brother who both lost homes to the storm surge in MS. They are fortunate in that they have a place to live until they can get their lives back together. They don't have to depend on the kindness or patience of strangers. The older sister and her husband are both retired, and they depended on their pensions and rental income from a house that was on their property. Tht rental income is now gone because the house is gone, so they'll have a limited income with which to re-build. Fortunately they're living with a younger sister, so they don't have to pay for housing while they're getting back on their feet. My brother and his wife are living with his son from a previous marriage and his wife and kids. Again, they have a place to rest before they have to get back to the business of working and building again.
The folks on the Gulf Coast of MS and LA have it particularly hard because they have to re-build, but have no where to live while they're doing so because there are no houses to rent in the area because of the massive destruction. This is where the FEMA trailers will come in handy. Folks can live in the trailers on their property as they're building their homes. Even for people not inclined to look for a handout, this is an important function of government, and one of which these families have no problem taking advantage, because they don't intend to live in those trailers forever.
The people who did not own homes will likely move away because there is not much in the way of rental property left, and their jobs are gone, anyway because the businesses were destroyed. Some will return, some will make new lives elsewhere. Again, if they have family in other places who are in a position to help, they'll be better off than others who don't have that support system.
I don't know how many times I would be counseling a client who was out of money and had a utility shut off notice or an eviction notice in their hand. (and this is without a disaster)
I would always ask if they had already asked family for help... Could they get help from their parents, siblings, and extended family? The answer was almost always no. Either the relationships were broken, or their other family was in no better financial shape to help, or they had parents with an attitude that once the kid was 18 - they're on their own, no help from them.
I know I still needed help from family after the age of 18. And what I tried to pass on to them was to remember that when their own kids need help later. I think the difference between those who have temporary setbacks in life and those who never recover is that family support system.
BRAVO!
Well done, Hair. This thread made my morning. :-D
Thanks Ruthy. Hope you're hangin' in there.
I have a sister-in-law whose parents had that attitude. Once the girls were 18, they were on their own. Sorry, but I don't buy that. Doesn't mean you let your kids lie around in your house and be lazy bums, but you help out to get them started.
Our #1 son is in his last year of law school. He worked for a firm in Boston this past summer, and they've offered him a job when he graduates. Now he has over $100K in loans he has to re-pay, and we are very willing to let him live with us for a while until he can get into a better financial position. It would never occur to me to throw him out into the world without some help on our part. He may not stay with us long, but that would be his choice. He's a pretty independent guy, but he knows that we're here if he needs us.
~marker~
I know some of these people. I am an evacuee who has recently returned home. Some of my relatives left when they were told to, stayed in a hotel, and have come back to their homes with no job. It is scary. There are good people down here and I have been very personally hurt by the things I've read on Free Republic. To many, we just don't seem to be worth saving or helping.
Thank God for all the wonderful people in this country who take a different view and are digging deep to help. New Orleans is a wonderful city, and at the same time it's not. I read in a quote today in the paper: "Anybody who knows New Orleans has a love-hate relationship with New Orleans." That's true. While I had stopped going into the city very much because of crime, I was thrilled, just a few months back, to be able to take my kids to Mass at the St. Louis Cathedral for my father's Confirmation. There's nothing like Mass at the Cathedral and beignets at Cafe du Monde. My heart is broken to see my city this way. I guess people can't understand that if they haven't visited here or lived here.
Anyway, thank you for this thread. Earlier this week, I decided to change my home page from Free Republic to something else. My husband, who reads FR daily, won't even look at it. I'm glad to see the people who disagree with the tone of the last couple weeks speaking up on this thread. God bless.
The thing about the obnoxious is their ability to drown everyone else out when the events are still unfolding. Later on, we can get a word in edgewise.
Thank you, and good luck to you in the months to come.
The largest number of evacuees at Reliant City was on Sept. 4, when it housed 27,100 residents.
I haven't lived in Houston in several years but my sister and my son live there now. Reliant City evidently refers to a complex which includes a sports arena, a large (maybe the largest in Houston) convention center named the George R. Brown and the Astrodome.
(http://www.reliantpark.com/facilities/facilities.asp) for more information about the size of the facilities used and their various locations in Houston.
According to the Red Cross, more than 4,000 evacuees were still living in Houston's three largest shelters on Wednesday. The number of evacuees at each shelter by noon was:
Reliant Center -- 2,021
Astrodome -- 1,068
George R. Brown Convention Center -- 1,069
Houston has managed to help 23,000 evacuees move out of the three area's being used as shelters. I found the article interesting because of the help Houston was able to offer such a large number of people.
Here's the link:
http://www.click2houston.com/news/4973356/detail.html
Not everything is perfect as there is also this report from the FBI about out of state gangs and a fight which happened at one of the schools.
http://www.click2houston.com/news/4975025/detail.html
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