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Disarming the National Guard? [PA Guard unit serving in LA ordered to remove magazines from rifles]
Michelle Malkin ^ | September 13, 2005 | Michelle Malkin

Posted on 09/14/2005 12:29:25 PM PDT by John Jorsett

Posters note: This has been rectified (see last item at the bottom), but it still serves as a lesson on how far some people will go in the name of making us "safe" from guns.

Looks like civilians aren't the only ones being disarmed in the Katrina disaster area.

An old Philadelphia acquaintance of mine who serves in a leadership position in a National Guard infantry company, deployed to Bogalusa, Louisiana, on security missions in support of Hurricane Katrina operations, sends along a plea for self-defense help:

We fall under Task Force Santa Fe, commanded by GEN Mason, commanding general of the 35th Infantry Division. Gen Mason has issued us the order to remove the magazines from our weapons, a move that will put my soldiers lives in jeopardy. If a soldier has a problem here, he needs to remove the magazine from the pouch, insert it in the weapon, pull the charging handle, aim the weapon, place the selector lever on "safe" and then fire. It takes a good soldier approximately 6-9 seconds to do this under normal conditions. This is not counting the stress of being under fire, or having a life threatening emergency, which would probably double that time. Hell, 6 seconds is an eternity on the street. We still have a threat here, the police don't want us to go, nor do the citizenry. Since our arrival we helped reduce crime to record levels here. The main reason behind this is we are working with a LTC Landis of the PA Air guard who only wishes to go home, forget the mission, he wants to get his people and himself back to PA. We, on the other hand, would be stuck here, veritably unarmed in squalid conditions in Hammond, LA. The reason given by Gen Mason is that he would reduce the chance of an accidental discharge of a weapon. I have to ask, what looks worse, an accidental discharge or a soldier killed by a criminal? Sen Santorum is supposedly aware of this situation. Please help.

There's more info on the much-needed--and much-welcomed--security operations of my acquaintance's unit here.If you're serving in the National Guard and have had a similar experience, drop me a line.

E-mail Sen. Santorum here.

***

Hmmm. Wonder if the National Guardsmen whom this Democratic congressman used as personal escorts to his New Orleans house were allowed to carry fully-loaded weapons? (ABC News via Drudge)

***

9/14 morning update: Just received from my National Guard source:

The situation I described in an email earlier about the PA Guard in Louisiana being told to disarm byt a MGEN Mason, has ben rectified. BGEN Jones, the overall ground commander, has overidden Gen Mason's orders. We found this out at about 10 last night. Hope this didn't start a little row somewhere.

Looks like it worked.


TOPICS: News/Current Events; US: Louisiana; US: Pennsylvania
KEYWORDS: 2ndamendment; antimilitary; atf; banglist; batf; disarmament; disarmement; malkin; michellemalkin; nationalguard; righttokeepandbear; rkba; secondamendment; un; unconstitutional
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To: Roccus

Yeah, yeah - I was well on my way to that when I got out as a Staff Sergeant. Had the smartass part down pat.


61 posted on 09/14/2005 1:25:13 PM PDT by Tennessee_Bob ("Nac Mac Feegle! The Wee Free Men! Nae king! Nae quin! Nae laird! We willna be fooled again!")
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To: ASA Vet
Kind of hard to miss an M-60 ammo belt containing the real thing and M-16s with no pretty little red blank adapters.
LOL! Yes, it says "move on" pretty clear!
62 posted on 09/14/2005 1:29:40 PM PDT by GrandEagle
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To: John Jorsett

"E-mail Sen. Santorum."

Done deal. Thanks for the post. Damn! What liberal filth got to this General?


63 posted on 09/14/2005 1:31:16 PM PDT by Marine_Uncle (Honor must be earned)
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To: John Jorsett
The military often gives this order to inexperience weapons handlers or where there have been an excess of accidental discharges ( I know there is no such thing as an accidental discharge with proper weapons handling)

Just stating the facts of life.

64 posted on 09/14/2005 1:32:40 PM PDT by dts32041 (Shinkichi: Massuer, did you see that? Zatôichi: I don't see much)
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To: Roccus

Kent State was no accident. There wasn't a single accidental shot fired that day.


65 posted on 09/14/2005 1:33:48 PM PDT by jjmcgo
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To: jjmcgo

Just re-read my post and didn't see the word 'accidental" anywhere. But then again, the sun is setting so.......


66 posted on 09/14/2005 1:36:21 PM PDT by Roccus (BEWARE of stupid people in very large numbers.)
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To: Springman

Lyndon Johnson never said n*****. He always said "nigra."


67 posted on 09/14/2005 1:36:30 PM PDT by jjmcgo
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To: Prime Choice
"My God...you have no clip! You have no ammunition!"

He was armed with an M-1?

68 posted on 09/14/2005 1:37:34 PM PDT by ASA Vet ("Nagin" A new FR buzz word for disavowing responsibility)
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To: Roccus

I didn't mean to imply that you did say accident. The reason given in New Orleans was to avoid accident. Kent State was no accident. So there is no accidental mistake to be learned from that incident.


69 posted on 09/14/2005 1:41:17 PM PDT by jjmcgo
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To: bvw

Some of the senior officers are just flat-out risk averse. They see an accidental discharge by one of their foot soldiers as "career-limiting" -- for them. Notice that the company grade officer that spilled the beans on this little charade has no such qualms about his own men carrying loaded weapons. Familiarity builds trust. The general obviously doesn't trust his men.


70 posted on 09/14/2005 1:43:40 PM PDT by Tallguy
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To: Tallguy
Some of the senior officers are just flat-out risk averse.

An awful lot of senior officers in the Army came into the military during the '80s at the height of the "zero-defect" mentality. It wasn't good for the Army then and it isn't good for the Army now.

71 posted on 09/14/2005 1:45:49 PM PDT by Terabitten (God grant me the strength to live a life worthy of those who have gone before me.)
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To: Roccus

My brother was in the Ohio NG during the Hough riots in Cleveland in 1966. "They" did this same crap to them. They had to stand around with empty guns hoping no one realized it. He was scared poopless since there were some pretty well armed dudes running around and he was essentially there with a "shoot me, I'm unarmed" sign on his back. We can thank the late Mayor Carl B. Stokes for that one. He and his bro Louis were big time black racist 4$$holes. Now everything in the city is named after these losers, but the Dems think they were God.


72 posted on 09/14/2005 1:45:57 PM PDT by Right Wing Assault ("..this administration is planning a 'Right Wing Assault' on values and ideals.." - John Kerry)
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To: Right Wing Assault; jjmcgo
I'm not taking any side in what happened at Kent State. I merely was stating when the last time I remembered NG troops having loaded weapons. See the post I was originally answering.
73 posted on 09/14/2005 1:52:10 PM PDT by Roccus (BEWARE of stupid people in very large numbers.)
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To: Terabitten
I had a quite different experience. I flew into Richmond International Airport (Byrd Field to the old-timers) and walked past a National Guardsman (it was an E3 or E4, I don't remember, but it wasn't an NCO) with a magazine inserted, weapon off safe, and his finger on the trigger.

Had almost the same experience in Chicago OHare about a week after the airports were re-opened. Two very young Air Force airmen walking near the foodcourt, one with weapon slung, the other with weapon in hand, loaded, finger on trigger, off safe. Saw an MP sergeant just past them, and spoke to him about it - sergeant thanked me for observing, and proceeded to walk over and chew out the airman. (Not sure exactly why an Army MP was overseeing Air Force patrol types - I imagine they were all National Guard).

74 posted on 09/14/2005 1:52:22 PM PDT by AzSteven
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To: jjmcgo

It was the African American, who told the story, that said it that way. Just wish I could remember who he was.

Had to be in the early 80's when I saw that report.


75 posted on 09/14/2005 1:54:24 PM PDT by Springman
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To: AzSteven
"I had a quite different experience. I flew into Richmond International Airport (Byrd Field to the old-timers) and walked past a National Guardsman (it was an E3 or E4, I don't remember, but it wasn't an NCO) with a magazine inserted, weapon off safe, and his finger on the trigger.

Had almost the same experience in Chicago OHare about a week after the airports were re-opened. Two very young Air Force airmen walking near the foodcourt, one with weapon slung, the other with weapon in hand, loaded, finger on trigger, off safe. Saw an MP sergeant just past them, and spoke to him about it - sergeant thanked me for observing, and proceeded to walk over and chew out the airman. (Not sure exactly why an Army MP was overseeing Air Force patrol types - I imagine they were all National Guard)."

I'm not getting it - could someone please explain - what was right with this or what was wrong with this????

76 posted on 09/14/2005 2:00:35 PM PDT by jackibutterfly
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To: Born Conservative
Thanks for the ping. Have you seen Shotgun Sean?

77 posted on 09/14/2005 2:28:38 PM PDT by neverdem (May you be in heaven a half hour before the devil knows that you're dead.)
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To: jackibutterfly
I'm not getting it - could someone please explain - what was right with this or what was wrong with this????

Its unsafe to be wandering about with your finger on the trigger of an unsafed weapon. Even if its unloaded; you don't want to break safety habits and then feel stupid becuase the weapon was loaded after all. Military rangemasters spend much of their professional lives trying to drill into the heads of recruits that your finger does not go into the trigger guard until you are going to fire.

Some folks get every excited and jacked up when carrying a weapon (especially if they don't do it a lot) and immediately forget their basic safety procedures; this is negligence rather than ill-will, and generally all that is needed is a little reminder. This is of course one of the reasons God created sergeants.

78 posted on 09/14/2005 2:29:21 PM PDT by AzSteven
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To: ASA Vet
No. It looked more like an M-16.

(Are they even still using M-1s?)

79 posted on 09/14/2005 2:29:34 PM PDT by Prime Choice (E=mc^3. Don't drink and derive.)
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To: jackibutterfly
jackibutterfly asks: "I'm not getting it - could someone please explain - what was right with this or what was wrong with this????"

Many of us have been taught that there are four essential rules to safe handling of a firearm.

1) Handle every firearm as if it was loaded.

2) Never point the firearm at anything that you are not willing to destroy.

3) Never touch the trigger until you are ready to fire.

4) Be sure of your target and what is beyond it.

The soldiers described were violating rule 3.

The purpose of the rules is that it is almost impossible to unintentionally harm someone if you follow these rules. In fact, you can violate any one of them, and probably be safe. But violating one of them all the time increases the likelihood that one might inadvertantly violate other rules or the firearm might malfunction and hurt someone unintentionally.

These soldiers were imitating the careless way in which they have seen the handling of firearms depicted by Hollywood for generations. They should have been taught better. Their trigger fingers should have been extended and resting along side the firearm.

80 posted on 09/14/2005 2:36:52 PM PDT by William Tell
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