Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

To: SeaLion

Either morality comes from God, or it is a human construct.

If it is God-given, we have no authority to change it.

If it is human-given, it is subject to change without notice.

Ask Adolph Hitler, Mao Tse Tung, or Pol Pot.


90 posted on 09/13/2005 6:31:29 AM PDT by Paloma_55
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 82 | View Replies ]


To: Paloma_55
"If it is God-given, we have no authority to change it."

If true, why don't we stone adulterers and disobedient children anymore? Why don't we condone or permit slavery anymore? Etc., etc.

94 posted on 09/13/2005 6:39:30 AM PDT by atlaw
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 90 | View Replies ]

To: Paloma_55
Either morality comes from God, or it is a human construct

Or--as my post #48 outlined--it could have evolved, just as life evolved, is indeed inherent in life.

If it [morality] is God-given, we have no authority to change it.

With respect, much of our human history is the history of wars about who possesses the authority of God. Or who has the 'correct' understanding of God's will. No matter what you believe, you are a heretic to someone else's religion. Every religious follower believes his God, his morality, is the right one--but they are mutually exclusive and incompatible, and that has given humanity no end of suffering

99 posted on 09/13/2005 6:47:13 AM PDT by SeaLion (I wanted to be an orphan, but my parents wouldn't let me)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 90 | View Replies ]

To: Paloma_55
Ask Adolph Hitler, Mao Tse Tung, or Pol Pot.

Don't forget, lenin, marx, clinton, carter, and Eisenhower.

125 posted on 09/13/2005 7:18:45 AM PDT by newsgatherer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 90 | View Replies ]

To: Paloma_55
atlaw; SeaLion; newsgatherer " Either morality comes from God, or it is a human construct. If it is God-given, we have no authority to change it. If it is human-given, it is subject to change without notice. Ask Adolph Hitler, Mao Tse Tung, or Pol Pot. "

Or morality is a product of an objective universe. It’s derived from observation and reason of our environment, guiding us as to how to best promote our lives according to our nature/abilities. We can’t successfully will morality to "change without notice" if the principles are incompatible with the world.

Like you say, just “Ask Adolph Hitler, Mao Tse Tung, or Pol Pot.” In general, they tried to impose moral systems that prohibited our freedom to pursue our rational self interest and succeed. That’s without precedent in nature, can’t work. So they failed.

139 posted on 09/13/2005 7:34:48 AM PDT by elfman2 (2 tacos short of a combination plate)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 90 | View Replies ]

To: Paloma_55
If it was God-given, He could change it on a whim and it would still be moral? What if He (or someone claiming to speak for Him, as is usually the case) suddenly declares that it's alright for a man to have sex outside of marriage? Would that make it moral?

In truth, morality is, at its basic, based upon the concept of enlightened self-interest -- balancing the desires of the individual and the necessities of the social group.

192 posted on 09/13/2005 8:21:26 AM PDT by Junior (Just because the voices in your head tell you to do things doesn't mean you have to listen to them)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 90 | View Replies ]

To: Paloma_55
"Either morality comes from God, or it is a human construct.

This premise is faulty and based on a false dilemma. The actions we label morals (the label is indeed a human construct) can also come from our genes, or from a combination of the three.

"If it is God-given, we have no authority to change it.

I don't believe there is a God, but I'll give you this one.

"If it is human-given, it is subject to change without notice.

Only if these morals are acceptable within a given society. Morals come from such things as kin selection, where we benefit from assuring the existence of our relatives, cultural development, where it benefits us to act within parameters set by living in large groups (we eventually set these conventions to law), and the structure of our brain which, through the multitude of potential synaptic connections, allows us to foresee the probable outcome of our actions and consciously determine the resulting benefit, including the ability to weigh equally likely outcomes.

"Ask Adolph Hitler, Mao Tse Tung, or Pol Pot.

How?

467 posted on 09/13/2005 3:03:10 PM PDT by b_sharp (Science adjusts theories to fit evidence, creationism distorts evidence to fit the Bible.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 90 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson