Replies

You really need to get back to some basic American history, Professor, with a quick refresher course in 16th century European city/state development.

In that case, so do these guys:

" In 1540 a new crop of city officials in Geneva invited Calvin back to the city. As soon as he arrived he set about revolutionizing Genevan society. His most important innovation was the incorporation of the church into city government; he immediately helped to restructure municipal government so that clergy would be involved in municipal decisions, particularly in disciplining the populace. He imposed a hierarchy on the Genevan church and began a series of statute reforms to impose a strict and uncompromising moral code on the city."

And this guy too EXECUTION OF A CHILD AND ADULTERERS IN CALVIN'S GENEVA

The Swiss seem hard on him..., but no more so than the Catholic Encyclopedia. "The Reformer did not shrink from his self-appointed task. Within five years fifty-eight sentences of death and seventy-six of exile, besides numerous committals of the most eminent citizens to prison, took place in Geneva. The iron yoke could not be shaken off. In 1555, under Ami Perrin, a sort of revolt was attempted. No blood was shed, but Perrin lost the day, and Calvin's theocracy triumphed."

Yes, darn it, the man does seem somehow to have gotten the reputation of running a theocratic nightmare state where kids where kids were whipped by the state for sassing their parents, adulterers and blasphemers were executed, and tyrannical moral codes were imposed on the populace. Must be more of that anti-Christian bigotry you've been pointing out to us.

LOL. While I do enjoy my CD of the Catholic Encyclopedia from New Advent, especially for info on early church fathers and various heresies, I'm not surprised you're using it to define Calvin's Geneva, the great God-ordained righteous thorn in the side of Rome.

Sola Scriptura, Soli Deo Gloria, Solo Christo, Sola Gratia, Sola Fide.

There's a searchable version of the Federalist Papers online, and the word "Geneva" can't be found therein. Nor "Calvin." That's not proof of lack of influence on the Framers, but it's something.

... darn it, the man does seem somehow to have gotten the reputation of running a theocratic nightmare state where kids where kids were whipped by the state for sassing their parents, adulterers and blasphemers were executed, and tyrannical moral codes were imposed on the populace. Must be more of that anti-Christian bigotry you've been pointing out to us...

Your moral outrage and indignation is amusing, given your presuppositions. What is the exact foundation for evolutionist blame of Calvin's morals in Geneva? What basis do you have for your implicit complaint that the universe, the world, or some aspect of it is not "fair" or "right"? For how could mindless evolution possibly produce anything 'evil'? or 'wrong'? Are there good atoms and bad atoms? Why would an atheist have any rational basis to expect that an impersonal, blind, purposeless, concatenation of atoms, the universe, should be fair? Why have such expectations when, based on your own presuppositions, your very beliefs and expectations with regard to the universe, including John Calvin's Geneva, are nothing but brute and irresistible physical forces of chance or mechanical necessity?

Given your worldview's assumptions, can you explain how time and chance acting on matter can produce reason and morality? Why do you have language of wrongdoing and of things being evil in themselves in your vocabulary when in your worldview, taken to its logical conclusion, there are no such things?

The reason you can't take your presuppositions seriously is because then your moral assessments would be merely reduced to personal preference, nothing more than expression of whatever feels good or bad to you, devoid of ethical content. You can't rationally engage in praise and blame of people unless you have a standard that stands outside of everyone, including John Calvin, and including you, and me, that says for instance that we ought not punish the innocent and let the guilty go free. Mindless Evolution provides no such consistent and coherent standard. It precludes the kind of moral indignation against John Calvin that you wish to engage in. You really have to borrow from Biblical theology to do that.

Cordially,