Posted on 09/13/2005 4:15:07 AM PDT by PatrickHenry
So what would Charles Darwin have to say about the dust-up between today's evolutionists and intelligent designers?
Probably nothing.
[snip]
Even after he became one of the most famous and controversial men of his time, he was always content to let surrogates argue his case.
[snip]
From his university days Darwin would have been familiar with the case for intelligent design. In 1802, nearly 30 years before the Beagle set sail, William Paley, the reigning theologian of his time, published "Natural Theology" in which he laid out his "Argument from Design."
Paley contended that if a person discovered a pocket watch while taking a ramble across the heath, he would know instantly that this was a designed object, not something that had evolved by chance. Therefore, there must be a designer. Similarly, man -- a marvelously intricate piece of biological machinery -- also must have been designed by "Someone."
If this has a familiar ring to it, it's because this is pretty much the same argument that intelligent design advocates use today.
[snip]
The first great public debate took place on June 30, 1860, in a packed hall at Oxford University's new Zoological Museum.
Samuel Wilberforce, the learned bishop of Oxford, was champing at the bit to demolish Darwin's notion that man descended from apes. As always, Darwin stayed home. His case was argued by one of his admirers, biologist Thomas Huxley.
Wilberforce drew whoops of glee from the gallery when he sarcastically asked Huxley if he claimed descent from the apes on his grandmother's side or his grandfather's. Huxley retorted that he would rather be related to an ape than to a man of the church who used half-truths and nonsense to attack science.
The argument continues unabated ...
[snip]
(Excerpt) Read more at chicagotribune.com ...
Wouldn't any such nation suffer an epidemic of obesity?
The earliest primitive primates are about 55 million years ago. The old-world new-world split comes about 36 million years ago. Apes split from monkeys IIRC about 30 million years ago. The line leading to humans diverges from the line leading to chimps 5-7 million years ago.
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The earliest primitive primates are about 55 million years ago. The old-world new-world split comes about 36 million years ago. Apes split from monkeys IIRC about 30 million years ago. The line leading to humans diverges from the line leading to chimps 5-7 million years ago.
That's pretty much what I learned in school some (unspecified) years back. Some of what I learned has changed, but mostly it is filling in the details.
I guess that means Australo was not on the monkey line, eh? (only missed by 25-30 million years, but who's counting.
I'm trying to be patient with Paloma55 because it sounds like s/he has been subjected to a number of really bad sources of information.
It's scary to think so many fall so under the spell of professional misinformationists like Hovind/Gish/Ham.
Wrong. Over 60 mya.
Sometimes the demands from the other side to "bring me the broomstick of..." get a little silly.
Wrong. Over 60 mya.
They were probably eating dino eggs too, right?
That's why we have the human/dino footprints together! I knew it!
(Ignore the fact that they were about the size of a chipmunk at the time. Facts just get in the way.)
Sarcasm off
They were lucky the Intelligent Designer didn't put them on the Earth any sooner or that Chixulub impact might have got them!
"But when one is looking for an excuse to dismiss evolution, even a tiny gap or "missing link" looks good.
Not so long ago I tried to perform the calculations needed to determine the probability of a specific fossil being found . About 15 minutes into it the variables became so numerous that I simply gave it up. I wish a few creationists would try that calculation so they could see how difficult it can be to find fossils for specific lineages and how remarkable it is we have as many as we do.
And one should note how carefully red-horned Chicxulub aimed her missle.
Aimed to maximize damage to the environment.
Hell of an aim the old girl had.
But when one is looking for an excuse to dismiss evolution, even a tiny gap or "missing link" looks good.
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Not so long ago I tried to perform the calculations needed to determine the probability of a specific fossil being found. About 15 minutes into it the variables became so numerous that I simply gave it up. I wish a few creationists would try that calculation so they could see how difficult it can be to find fossils for specific lineages and how remarkable it is we have as many as we do.
You could probably prove mathematically that no fossils would ever be found!
Contradicted by the facts of course, but facts seem to be in short supply on the other side.
I particularly like to ask the young earth types about the radiocarbon dating of bristlecone pines, extending the calibration curve back (using tree-ring dating) some 10,000 years. Funny, I have never received an answer.
Oh, that's not entirely correct. One on our side (unfortunately I don't remember who right now) pointed out (correctly) that other methods extended the calibration curve back some 20,000 years.
I'm pretty sure we've all tried at one time or another to convince them that the calibration of C14 dating isn't just haphazard guesses. I believe most of them think there is no calibration done.
I do believe organics found in varves have been used to calibrate C14 past the 10,000 year mark.
Goodnight all.
I have to quit a couple of hours before I go to sleep or I'll wake up in the middle of the night and think too much to fall back asleep.
Tired placemarker.
Tripper was a rescue also. He was found hiding in our barn about 15-16 years ago. Didn't take too much taming, so we figure he was a drop-off.
The photo I posted above was taken with a Hasselblad, explaining the sharpness, then scanned at 4000 dpi. Had to toss almost all of the detail for the web, else you'd still be downloading.
Sadly, Tripper died a few months ago, but his eyes will live on here on FR, first on the ZOT threads, and secondly on cat-friendly threads such as this.
We have another cat, named Mikey (after Mike Tyson--darn quick with that left paw). Another drop-off. We live-trapped him and sent him through the animal rescue program, which neutered him and clipped his ear, finding him to be feral and untameable. Figured we'd have to turn him loose to fend for himself. Now I can't get him off my feet or my lap. He's not too feral this evening (but I can't move my feet just now). No good photos yet, but the year is still young.
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