Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

New Orleans Gun Confiscation is Blatantly Illegal
The Volokh Conspiracy ^ | 9/9/05 | David Kopel

Posted on 09/10/2005 5:59:21 AM PDT by Brian Mosely

New Orleans Gun Confiscation is Blatantly Illegal:

On Monday, I'll have an article on the New Orleans gun confiscation on Reason.com. But there's one part of the story that's too important to wait: the confiscation is plainly illegal. I realize that there are plausible arguments that the house-to-house break-ins and gun-point confiscations violate the Second, Fourth, Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments of the United States Constitution, as well as numerous provisions of the Louisiana Constitution, including the right to arms. Indeed, the confiscations are inconsistent with the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, and with natural law. But my point is much more specific. The particular Louisiana statute which allows emergency controls on firearms also clearly disallows the complete prohibition being imposed by the New Orleans chief of police.

The relevant statute is La. Stat., title 14, § 329.6. It provides:

§329.6. Proclamation of state of emergency; conditions therefor; effect thereof

A. During times of great public crisis, disaster, rioting, catastrophe, or similar public emergency within the territorial limits of any municipality or parish, or in the event of reasonable apprehension of immediate danger thereof, and upon a finding that the public safety is imperiled thereby, the chief executive officer of any political subdivision or the district judge, district attorney, or the sheriff of any parish of this state, or the public safety director of a municipality, may request the governor to proclaim a state of emergency within any part or all of the territorial limits of such local government. Following such proclamation by the governor, and during the continuance of such state of emergency, the chief law enforcement officer of the political subdivision affected by the proclamation may, in order to protect life and property and to bring the emergency situation under control, promulgate orders affecting any part or all of the territorial limits of the municipality or parish:

(1) Establishing a curfew and prohibiting and/or controlling pedestrian and vehicular traffic, except essential emergency vehicles and personnel;

(2) Designating specific zones within which the occupancy and use of buildings and the ingress and egress of vehicles and persons shall be prohibited or regulated;

(3) Regulating and closing of places of amusement and assembly;

(4) Prohibiting the sale and distribution of alcoholic beverages;

(5) Prohibiting and controlling the presence of persons on public streets and places;

(6) Regulating and controlling the possession, storage, display, sale, transport and use of firearms, other dangerous weapons and ammunition;

(7) Regulating and controlling the possession, storage, display, sale, transport and use of explosives and flammable materials and liquids, including but not limited to the closing of all wholesale and retail establishments which sell or distribute gasoline and other flammable products;

(8) Regulating and controlling the possession, storage, display, sale, transport and use of sound apparatus, including but not limited to public address systems, bull horns and megaphones.

(9) Prohibiting the sale or offer for sale of goods or services within the designated emergency area for value exceeding the prices ordinarily charged for comparable goods and services in the same market area at, or immediately before, the time of the state of emergency. However, the value received may include reasonable expenses and a charge for any attendant business risk in addition to the cost of the goods and services which necessarily are incurred in procuring the goods and services during the state of emergency, pursuant to the provisions of R.S. 29:701 through 716.

B. Such orders shall be effective from the time and in the manner prescribed in such orders and shall be published as soon as practicable in a newspaper of general circulation in the area affected by such order and transmitted to the radio and television media for publication and broadcast. Such orders shall cease to be in effect five days after their promulgation or upon declaration by the governor that the state of emergency no longer exists, whichever occurs sooner; however, the chief law enforcement officer, with the consent of the governor, may extend the effect of such orders for successive periods of not more than five days each by republication of such orders in the manner hereinabove provided.

C. All orders promulgated pursuant to this section shall be executed in triplicate and shall be filed with the clerk of court of the parish affected and with the secretary of state of this state.

D. During any period during which a state of emergency exists the proclaiming officer may appoint additional peace officers or firemen for temporary service, who need not be in the classified lists of such departments. Such additional persons shall be employed only for the time during which the emergency exists.

E. During the period of the existence of the state of emergency the chief law enforcement officer of the political subdivision may call upon the sheriff, mayor, or other chief executive officer of any other parish or municipality to furnish such law enforcement or fire protection personnel, or both, together with appropriate equipment and apparatus, as may be necessary to preserve the public peace and protect persons and property in the requesting area. Such aid shall be furnished to the chief law enforcement officer requesting it insofar as possible without withdrawing from the political subdivision furnishing such aid the minimum police and fire protection appearing necessary under the circumstances. In such cases when a state of emergency has been declared by the governor pursuant to R.S. 29:724 et seq., all first responders who are members of a state or local office of homeland security and emergency preparedness, including but not limited to medical personnel, emergency medical technicians, persons called to active duty service in the uniformed services of the United States, Louisiana National Guard, Louisiana Guard, Civil Air Patrol, law enforcement and fire protection personnel acting outside the territory of their regular employment shall be considered as performing services within the territory of their regular employment for purposes of compensation, pension, and other rights or benefits to which they may be entitled as incidents of their regular employment. Law enforcement officers acting pursuant to this Section outside the territory of their regular employment have the same authority to enforce the law as when acting within the territory of their own employment.

F. Notwithstanding the provisions of this Section, except in an imminent life threatening situation nothing herein shall restrict any uniformed employee of a licensed private security company, acting within the scope of employment, from entering and remaining in an area where an emergency has been declared. The provisions of this Subsection shall apply if the licensed private security company submits a list of employees and their assignment to be allowed into the area, to the Louisiana State Board of Private Security Examiners, which shall forward the list to the chief law enforcement office of the parish and, if different, the agency in charge of the scene.

First, there are the procedural issues. According to subsection B, emergency orders must be published in a newspaper in the jurisdiction; the Times-Picayune is heroically publishing on-line, but I did not find any evidence, on Friday night, of any publication of the gun confiscation order, whose implementation had already begun on Thursday. According to subsection C, an emergency order must also be filed with the court in the relevant parish (impossible under current conditions), and with the Secretary of State (whose office in Baton Rouge is entirely functional). The Secretary's website gives no indication that a gun confiscation order has been filed.

The more serious issue is the substantive one. The emergency statute creates authority for "prohibiting" some things, and for "regulating" other things. The statute uses "prohibiting" in subsections (A)4, 5, and 9. The statute uses "regulating" in sections (A)3, 6, 7, and 8. Quite clearly the legislature meant to distinguish "prohibiting" authority from "regulating" authority. In the context of the statute, it is not plausible to claim that "prohibiting" means the same as "regulating."

"Prohibiting" authority applies to the sale of alcohol, presence on public streets, and the sale of goods or services at excessive prices. "Regulating" authority applies to firearms, flammable materials, and sound devices (such as megaphones). The "regulating" authority is undoubtedly broad. But it is not equivalent to "prohibiting." The statute does not authorize the New Orleans Police--abetted by the National Guard and the U.S. Marshalls--to break into homes, point guns at people, and confiscate every single private firearm--or every single private bullhorn or private cigarette lighter.

Yet New Orleans' lawless superintendant of police, P. Edwin Compass, has declared, "No one is allowed to be armed. We're going to take all the guns."

The Compass order appears to be plainly illegal. Under section 1983 of the federal Civil Rights law, any government employee who assists in the illegal confiscation would appear to be personally liable to a civil lawsuit. Moreover, higher-ranking officials--such as the National Guard officers who have ordered their troops to participate in the confiscation--would seem to be proper subjects for impeachment or other removal from office (and attendant forfeiture of pensions), depending on the procedures of their particular state.

All police officers, National Guard troops, and U.S. Marshals take an oath to uphold the Constitution and the laws. It appears that carrying out an illegal order to confiscate lawfully-owned firearms from homes would be inconsistent with the oath, contrary to sworn duty, and perhaps a criminal act.
UPDATE: Orin's response to my post (above) contains several misunderstandings, in my view:

1. The most serious problem is that he reads the power of "regulating and controlling" as equivalent to the power of "prohibiting and controlling." By his theory, the Louisiana legislature could just as well have said "controlling" instead of "prohibiting and controlling" and the legislature still would have granted the power of prohibiting. In an abstract semantic sense, Orin's theory is not implausible. But the Louisiana legislature obviously used the words more precisely; the repeated shifts from "regulating" to "prohibitting" plainly show that the two words are not identical, and that adding "and controlling" after each word does not create identical phrases. If the Louisiana legislature meant to convey the same powers over each of the items in subsection (A), the legislature would have used the same operative words in each subsection.

2. He's right that the statute doesn't specify whether proper publication and filing are necessary for the emergency orders to be lawful. (And as my original post indicated, it's not absolutely certain that proper publication and filing have not occured, although it would be odd for the Louisiana Secretary of State not to post the filing of such an important order.) At least in some circumstances, strict adherence to the provisions of subsections (B) and (C) would be impossible. For example, the Secretary of State's office might be closed; indeed, the courts in Orleans Parish are currently closed. However, if the police chief failed to file the proper notice with the Secretary of State, even when the Secretary of State's office is open, the failure to file indicates, at the least, a disregard on the part of the chief for proper legal procedure.

3. Note subsection (B)'s rule that "Such orders shall be effective from the time and in the manner prescribed in such orders... Such orders shall cease to be in effect five days after their promulgation..." Has the police chief ever promulgated a proper emergency order about firearms? Sending police officers out to confiscate guns is not "promulgation." For the order to be valid, there must, at least, be some form of proper order to the public, not merely to the police. The "promulgation" must, at the least, include a date on which the order goes into effect, because a legal start date is necessary to calculate the automatic expiration date five days thereafter. It seems unlikely that a press conference merely announcing--after the confiscations and break-ins have already begun--the confiscations are taking place, consistutes the promulgation of an "order." The only Louisiana case law definitions of "promulgate" come from election law cases; they rely on the dictionary definition of "promulgate" as "To make known or announce officially and formally to the public." The cases further specify that "promulgate" should be understood in its specific statutory context. E.g., LeCompte v. Board of Sup'rs of Elections of Terrebonne Parish, 331 So.2d 173 (La. App. 1976). And it appears that the chief of police has not complied with any of the statute's specific standards for promulgation (newspaper, parish court, Secretary of State).

4. Violation of a person's state constitutional right to keep and bear arms is a violation of her 14th Amendment rights, and gives rise to a cause of action under section 1983. Kellogg v. City of Gary, 562 N.E.2d 685, 696 (Ind. 1990):

For all of the foregoing reasons, we now hold there is a state created right to bear arms which includes the right to carry a handgun with a license, provided that all of the requirements of the Indiana Firearms Act are met. This right is protected by the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment and is both a property and liberty interest for purposes of § 1983.

If the confiscation of firearms is illegal under Louisiana statute, then the confiscation is very likely a violation of the right to arms under the Louisiana constitution. Moreover, pursuant to United States v. Emerson, the Second Amendment is recognized as an individual right in the Fifth Circuit, which includes Louisiana. The Second Amendment, even if unincorporated, would be the basis of a section 1983 claim against any federal employees involved in the confiscation. Also, the warrantless entry into homes and illegal confiscation of property might give rise to section 1983 claims premised on the Fourth and Fifth Amendments.

5. In response to some of the issues raised by comments on related posts...the President of the United States probably has the power, as Commander in Chief, to order the confiscation of firearms from areas in actual rebellion, following a proclamation of martial law. Martial law has not been declared. The "standard of scrutiny" question for the deprivation of state or federal constitutional rights is irrelevant here; the question would be relevant if there were a challenge to the constitutionality of the Louisiana emergency statute. When the police chief exercises power which he was never granted by law, then his act is ultra vires, and necessarily illegal.

Related Posts (on one page):

  1. The New Orleans Gun Confiscation -- A Response to David Kopel:
  2. New Orleans Gun Confiscation is Blatantly Illegal:
  3. Constitutions and Emergencies:
  4. Taking Away Their Guns in New Orleans:


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Government; News/Current Events; US: Louisiana
KEYWORDS: bang; banglist; katrina; mdm; neworleans; nopd
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 101-120121-140141-160 ... 221-222 next last
To: Emmett McCarthy
I personally have come to despise government in all its forms.

The alternative is worse. Anarchy is a literal hell on earth.

121 posted on 09/10/2005 11:47:39 AM PDT by Melas (The dumber the troll, the longer the thread)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

Comment #122 Removed by Moderator

Comment #123 Removed by Moderator

To: Mulder

I agree that the AG is a worthless slug, but the gun-show crap is John McCain poop, not Pres. Bush.

In MHO Bush has been the best Pres. Gun owners have had in quite some time.


124 posted on 09/10/2005 11:51:57 AM PDT by Beagle8U
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 117 | View Replies]

To: Emmett McCarthy
"Government officials want us to sing some silly song about "respect for the rule of law" when, in fact, there's no rule of law at all, but just raw power."

You are correct. When the Constitution and the law are ignored by the police and by the government authorities, there is no longer a "rule of law." Instead there is the "rule of men." In other words, the men in authority have given themselves the right to ignore the actual law, and the Constitution, and make up rules arbitrarily as they go along. Our founding fathers referred to this kind of thing as tyranny, today it's called totalitarianism.

I have a feeling that it will be a forlorn wait on our part before our President, or any other leader takes a position on this. OTOH, I believe very few Americans understand or care about our founding traditions anyway.

125 posted on 09/10/2005 11:53:05 AM PDT by Sam Cree (absolute reality)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Beagle8U
In MHO Bush has been the best Pres. Gun owners have had in quite some time

Well, it's put-up or shut-up time.

You have armed thugs going door-to-door seizing guns in New Orleans violating the Rights of Americans under color of law. That is a federal felony. So when are they going to be arrested and charged?

Or do federal laws only apply to us peasants?

126 posted on 09/10/2005 11:56:08 AM PDT by Mulder (“The spirit of resistance is so valuable, that I wish it to be always kept alive" Thomas Jefferson)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 124 | View Replies]

To: Brian Mosely

As far as I know, courts have ruled that the police are not legally required to protect us from all crime, nor do they make any warranty that such a thing is within their ability.

I hope the politicians who so easily dispense with the people's rights will pay a price. Not holding my breath, though.


127 posted on 09/10/2005 11:56:21 AM PDT by Sam Cree (absolute reality)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Mulder

We are on the same page/team. I would love to put the NO slugs in jail for violating the 2nd amendment.

I just can't agree that President Bush is anti-gun.

If the AG wont go after them , we can go after him.
Just don't throw the baby out with the wash.


128 posted on 09/10/2005 12:12:05 PM PDT by Beagle8U
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 126 | View Replies]

To: Freebird Forever
Some JBT was beating down an elderly lady holding a revolver.

By the barrel and cylinder no less, not by the grip.

129 posted on 09/10/2005 12:15:29 PM PDT by El Gato
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: Brian Mosely
Anybody remember that survey in the '90s given to some members of the Armed Forces asking whether they would confiscate weapons from US Civilians? The results indicated a sad ignorance of the constitutional limits

It got a lot of play in the now-extinct conspiracy fever contingent of FR, but I think it was later revealed to be a survey by the brass to determine gaps in their education of their men.

130 posted on 09/10/2005 12:24:40 PM PDT by Dumb_Ox (Be not Afraid. "Perfect love drives out fear.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Brian Mosely

This is so terrible it is beyond words.


131 posted on 09/10/2005 12:25:33 PM PDT by kerryusama04 (The UN wants our guns so they can rape our children and steal our money)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Travis McGee; All
Once you are disarmed, you are a govt ward. Get on this bus, march into that holding area. Once disarmed, the govt owns you.

As long ago as when Pharao disarmed the Israelites and as recent as Robert Mugabe's Uganda, the song remains the same. Stand strong, 2A bretheren.

132 posted on 09/10/2005 12:28:56 PM PDT by kerryusama04 (The UN wants our guns so they can rape our children and steal our money)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Melas
Re:government in all its forms.

" The alternative is worse. Anarchy is a literal hell on earth."

Anarchy is govm't. Your perspective that it's hell on Earth only comes from the viewpoint of the weaker party. That's the perspective those that wish to remain in their homes in NO.

133 posted on 09/10/2005 12:33:47 PM PDT by spunkets
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 121 | View Replies]

To: zzen01

"I hope that New Orleans and LA get the HELL sued out of them!"

Many of us would cheer if the Governor, Mayor and Chief of Police all were put away in a max security federal prison for the rest of their natural life. What an evilly inspired trio...

(I previously thought they were just incompetent, but now I believe they are inspired by evil forces).


134 posted on 09/10/2005 12:38:46 PM PDT by GGpaX4DumpedTea
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Sam Cree
As far as I know, courts have ruled that the police are not legally required to protect us from all crime, nor do they make any warranty that such a thing is within their ability.

No they are not legally required to protect anyone from crime. Otherwise, every person the fell victim to a crime could sue the local authorities for damages.

135 posted on 09/10/2005 12:38:51 PM PDT by Black Tooth
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 127 | View Replies]

To: Black Tooth

Thanks, makes sense. The NOLA cops and city government are criminals, but I guess that's nothing new. This deal is on a pretty big scale, though.


136 posted on 09/10/2005 12:47:06 PM PDT by Sam Cree (absolute reality)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 135 | View Replies]

To: Sam Cree
I couldn't agree more Sam. Taking law abiding citizens guns, under any circumstances is just plain wrong and illegal.
137 posted on 09/10/2005 12:49:27 PM PDT by Black Tooth
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 136 | View Replies]

To: Brian Mosely

I pray some blood sucking lawyer (No Offense) is watching this and has plans to relentlessly sue so much so that it makes The Big Tobbaco Suits of the 80's and 90's look like Small Claims court. If ever a lawyer was needed...it is now.


138 posted on 09/10/2005 12:49:58 PM PDT by Xenophon450
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Black Tooth

You know, after Andrew, my neighborhood was wrecked. It wasn't flooded, but the wind damage exceeded most of what happened in NOLA. Lots of folks left town, they didn't want to live in a wrecked place with no electricity.

We stayed in our home, though, as did many. We got a generator, pumped water from a well, and generally did well. And we were armed. That part was a necessity the first week, while we were isolated.

No one came to Miami and disarmed the citizens, or forced them out of their homes. The cops didn't desert either. It may come as a surprise to Mayor Nagin, but everyone did fine, which IIRC, is the entire premise of America, that given a chance, people do fine on their own.


139 posted on 09/10/2005 12:58:19 PM PDT by Sam Cree (absolute reality)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 137 | View Replies]

To: blackie; supercat
Is it insurrection?

No, I don't believe so. Insurrection is defined as an organized rebellion against authority. The perpetrators would be known as rebels.

The city officials of New Orleans are not organizing to overturn authority, but rather in conjunction with the NG and LEO from outside their state (and I'm sure the BATFE is probably there as well) are overreaching their authority by violating at least the first five Amendments of the Constitution, and possibly others.

True enough I think, they have certainly ignored the "authority" of the Constitution, but they are not engaged in an organized rebellion to overthrow the government.

Also, I believe that the lawlessness which began within the city after the hurricane had passed does not qualify as an insurrection. That was just good old fashioned criminals and thugs (along with some worthless NO Police apparently) taking advantage of the situation because there was no effective law enforcement in place to stop them. But I wouldn't say that they were organized rebels attempting to overthrow authority.

Again, I await the response of our elected officials to address this, even amid the unlikely hood they will.

Here is something posted a few times on fr that describes the Constitutional violations.

1st Amendment: NOPD and National Guard are confiscating cameras and film from reporters and not allowing pictures to be taken.

2nd Amendment: police and NG are searching homes and confiscating legally owned firearms.

3rd Amendment: National Guard are staying in hotels, churches, stores and homes with out permission of the owners.

4th Amendment: Warrantless searches of property and seizures by police and NG.

5th Amendment: Seizure of property without due process of law.

140 posted on 09/10/2005 1:10:00 PM PDT by planekT (What a mess.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 118 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 101-120121-140141-160 ... 221-222 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson