Lincoln holiday on its way out (West Virginia)

West Virginia Gazette Mail ^ | 9-8-2005 | Phil Kabler

[Colonel Kangaroo]

Lincoln holiday on its way out

By Phil Kabler Staff writer

A bill to combine state holidays for Washington and Lincoln’s birthdays into a single Presidents’ Day holiday cleared its first legislative committee Wednesday, over objections from Senate Republicans who said it besmirches Abraham Lincoln’s role in helping establish West Virginia as a state.

Senate Government Organization Committee members rejected several attempts to retain Lincoln’s birthday as a state holiday.

State Sen. Russ Weeks, R-Raleigh, introduced an amendment to instead eliminate Columbus Day as a paid state holiday. “Columbus didn’t have anything to do with making West Virginia a state,” he said. “If we have to cut one, let’s cut Christopher Columbus.”

Jim Pitrolo, legislative director for Gov. Joe Manchin, said the proposed merger of the two holidays would bring West Virginia in line with federal holidays, and would effectively save $4.6 million a year — the cost of one day’s pay to state workers.

Government Organization Chairman Ed Bowman, D-Hancock, said the overall savings would be even greater, since by law, county and municipal governments must give their employees the same paid holidays as state government.

“To the taxpayers, the savings will be even larger,” he said.

The bill technically trades the February holiday for a new holiday on the Friday after Thanksgiving. For years, though, governors have given state employees that day off with pay by proclamation.

Sen. Sarah Minear, R-Tucker, who also objected to eliminating Lincoln’s birthday as a holiday, argued that it was misleading to suggest that eliminating the holiday will save the state money.

“It’s not going to save the state a dime,” said Minear, who said she isn’t giving up on retaining the Lincoln holiday.

Committee members also rejected an amendment by Sen. Steve Harrison, R-Kanawha, to recognize the Friday after Thanksgiving as “Lincoln Day.”

“I do believe President Lincoln has a special place in the history of West Virginia,” he said.

Sen. Randy White, D-Webster, said he believed that would create confusion.

“It’s confusing to me,” he said.

Senate Judiciary Chairman Jeff Kessler, D-Marshall, suggested that the state could recognize Lincoln’s proclamation creating West Virginia as part of the June 20 state holiday observance for the state’s birthday.

Proponents of the measure to eliminate a state holiday contend that the numerous paid holidays - as many as 14 in election years — contribute to inefficiencies in state government.

To contact staff writer Phil Kabler, use e-mail or call 348-1220.

[Gianni]

Whatever.

[Non-Sequitur]

Whatever.

Whatever indeed. What orders did he issue? On what authority? Who obeyed them?

[stand watie]

here's another one. (btw, WELCOME to the WAR!)

free dixie,sw

[Heyworth]

Perhaps you'd like to tell Mrs. Schwerin about the tractor you claim to have seen, manufactured by a company that wouldn't be founded for another 15 years and wouldn't make tractors for 50. Or about the U-Boat you claimed is on display in Galveston that was captured by Texas privateers during WW2, or the book you read about it in that doesn't appear to exist in any library anywhere. Or that everyone who was killed by Quantrill's band in the Lawrence raid had it coming. Or about the mechanical cotton pickers that would have ended slavery by 1875, even though they weren't invented until the 1930s. Or that slavery had absolutely nothing to do with the war.

[Mrs. Darla Ruth Schwerin]

I missed something. Could you please explain what the point is?

[PeaRidge]

All you supply is misdirection, straw man arguments, hyperbole, and your own bias. Why don't you supply some data?

On this one thread alone you have been shown that your bias on trade was wrong. You asked for data, and you were shown where to research it. You ignored it and ran off another bunny path. Then you were given the data you were too lazy to find. Then you want to argue consumption, then amounts of trade, then trade as a function of boats going into New Orleans as a misdirection for the data given you on Charleston.

Then you bug on about when the war started, and you were cited the government's declaration timeline.........then you want to argue against the clear fact that the Harriet Lane was the first to fire in Charleston Harbor.

You don't bring data, you bring posters. You don't quote information, you try to set up misdirection straw men and then try to discredit what you cannot find information to argue against.

You don't bring anything to these discussions. You merely try to argue through logical fallacies. That is boring, very boring.

Take your non-sequiturs, straw man red herrings, and illogical points and go to the library and bring us back some information worth discussion.

[Heyworth]

The point is that if you're following Watie to these threads to see the "DamnYankees" in all their glory, you should also understand who Watie is. Most of it you can see for yourself, but the examples that I gave are examples of his manufacturing evidence out of whole cloth, then accusing anyone calling him on it of being a racist.

[Heyworth]

then trade as a function of boats going into New Orleans as a misdirection for the data given you on Charleston.

The point of which was to give lie to your constant refrain that southern ports were somehow disadvantaged by trade laws. Your pointing to Charleston's statistics, when Charleston was a secondary port at best compared to New Orleans, would be the equivalent of my insisting that Portland, Maine's statistics should be taken as evidence of trade in the north.

Then you bug on about when the war started, and you were cited the government's declaration timeline.........then you want to argue against the clear fact that the Harriet Lane was the first to fire in Charleston Harbor.

And again you misstate and lie. The Harriet Lane fired a shot across the bow of an unflagged ship, which is standard procedure for customs ships from long before 1861 to this day. This action happened outside Charleston harbor, not in it. And you have no answer to the fact that I nailed you on your selective quoting of the Baltic's log, showing that the commandeering of the ice schooner occurred after the firing on Sumter had begun, not before it.

[PeaRidge]

You have received ample documentation of the arrival of the Harriet Lane, her firing on the Nashville on the late evening of the 11th, the Nashville's stand off the bar, the arrival of other merchant ships that stood off the bar, and the confiscation of the ice schooner to be used in a military action.

Here for your edification:

Blockade: 1: a war measure that isolates some area of importance to the enemy [syn: encirclement] 2: prevents access or progress v 1: hinder or prevent the progress or accomplishment of [syn: obstruct, block, hinder, stymie, stymy, embarrass] 2: render unsuitable for passage.

"Pea would have you believe that these ships sitting outside the bar while the harbor is under bombardment is evidence of the Union blockade, and not the simple result of civilian ship captains not wanting to sail into a firestorm."

There was no firestorm that blocked the Nashville's entrance, except for the gun Captain Faunce of the Harriet Lane ordered fired at her. The choices made by the others you do not have information to understand.

That is with the exception of the ice schooner whose progress was impaired by its seizure.

You know all this based on several sources, including the O. R. and the writings of the people who were there.

Remember, they were there, and you weren't.

[PeaRidge]

"I think this thread has also been useful in establishing that the South never paid more than 25-35% of the tariffs imposed on an annual basis."

And you would be wrong again.

[stand watie]

i don't think i said ANY of those things.

free dixie,sw

[stand watie]

lincoln, the TYRANT & WAR CRIMINAL, also didn't have the authority to suspend the RIGHTS enumerated/guaranteed under the Constitution either. BUT that didn't stop him from issuing those IMMORAL & UNLAWFUL orders.

nice try, NS, but NO cigar.

free dixie,sw

[Mrs. Darla Ruth Schwerin]

"The point is that if you're following Watie to these threads to see the "DamnYankees" in all their glory, you should also understand who Watie is. Most of it you can see for yourself, but the examples that I gave are examples of his manufacturing evidence out of whole cloth, then accusing anyone calling him on it of being a racist."

Thank you very much for the information.

[stand watie]

the ONLY problem is that you (evidently) do NOT have the ABILITY (or possibly the INTEREST) in UNDERSTANDING what you "learned". i believe i pointed out to you (in a PM) about at least TWO mistakes of FACT, which i thought you'd be HONORABLE enough to come on the forum admit to your ERRORS, at least as openly as you made the accusations.

what you did is what most here would describe as a (HALF-baked/witted) cyber-stalking.

you also might note that most here are bright enough to recognize it as exactly that.

free dixie,sw

[PeaRidge]

"The point of which was to give lie to your constant refrain..."

In the interest of accuracy, the 'constant refrain' that you refer to came from "Charleston's Maritime Heritage" by P. C. Coker, III.

"that southern ports were somehow disadvantaged by trade laws..."

This has all been covered, but if you are still not satisfied, see "State of the Union Speech" in the Us House of Representatives, Jan 15, 1861, by Congressman John H. Reagan, and "Charleston's Maritime Heritage".

"Your pointing to Charleston's statistics, when Charleston was a secondary port at best compared to New Orleans, would be the equivalent of my insisting that Portland, Maine's statistics should be taken as evidence of trade in the north."

Fallacious comparison. Charleston's trade data in comparison to New Orleans reflects no magnitude of accuracy relative to Portland, Maine vs. New York City.

"And again you misstate and lie."

And again you misrepresent. I stated that the Harriet Lane fired across the bow of the Nashville, and that the Nashville then stood off the bar. (Documented in the O. R. in Fox's statement).

You said: "The Harriet Lane fired a shot across the bow of an unflagged ship (which was true).

"which is standard procedure for customs ships from long before 1861 to this day."

And I can say with accuracy that the Nashville was a regularly scheduled civilian ship whose arrival times were posted months in advance. Her outline was known to the navy. There was no doubt who she was. I could also say that it is likely that Capt. Faunce knew what and who she was, and used the situation to stop incoming shipping from interfering with the naval invasion.

Point is that you do not know for certain and neither do I.

What is known is that the Nashville received fire and stopped. That is no misstatement. That also puts to the lie your contention that the "Nashville continued on her way" which she is well documented as standing off after the firing on her.

There is no mis-statement and no lie if you stick to the facts.

"This action happened outside Charleston harbor, not in it."

Faking a relevance with that sentence?

"And you have no answer to the fact that I nailed you on your selective quoting of the Baltic's log, showing that the commandeering of the ice schooner occurred after the firing on Sumter had begun, not before it."

Wrong again. No selective quoting. The post was to prove that the ice schooner was seized, which I quoted and the log verified.

What you did was to finish a sentence and yell out "selective quoting". It is selective only if it changes a meaning by leaving out a modifier. I did not. You just choose to make a red herring out of another fact that you can't dispute.

[Non-Sequitur]

lincoln, the TYRANT & WAR CRIMINAL, also didn't have the authority to suspend the RIGHTS enumerated/guaranteed under the Constitution either. BUT that didn't stop him from issuing those IMMORAL & UNLAWFUL orders.

Blah, blah, blah, blah.

[jaguaretype]

Hi Stand,

I haven't been involved with this other than noting Cronos who asked me a question.

I don't take your PM "corrections" back to me as "FACT" SIR!

I listed what you wrote......YOU WROTE!!!!!!!and I can back it up with the locations for you if you like.

It seems as though you want me back in this so here you are Stand:

"Tell the truth and you will never have to remember what you said"

A quote my father taught me.

Stand Watie's CV as follows as gleaned from his own FR postings:

Employment

1) Current HVAC (Heating and Air Conditioning) Company Employee in as yet undisclosed capacity.
2) Current "Guest Lecturer" at undisclosed College (writes Faculty notes, has typewriter's capital letters modified and does research
although not Tenured Faculty Member.....as of this writing)
3) Current "Policy Wonk" at undiclosed Non-Profit Organization
4) Current Partner in a Security Company seeking Middle East Security Services Contracts
5) Former Professor of Something at an undisclosed Texas Church related College
6) Former English 101 Teacher somewhere (College level English Comp)
7) Former Instructor/Professor at US ARMY Military Police School
8) Former Security Supervisor for a large City/County Hospital (unclear as to why Mr. Watie equates two separate entities)
9) Former Magazine business executive who entertained clients


A VERY busy man obviously

Education

1) English Lit Undergrad on one post
2) Political Science Degree (either MS or BS/BA - not sure)
3) Public Policy Degree (either MSPP or BS/BA - not sure)
4) Public Administration Degree (either MSPA or BS/BA - not sure)
5) Additionally states "i wrote one of my 3 mini-thesis (sic) for my ms on san jacinto." (not stated where this MS was aquired and
unclear as to where one prepares more than one Thesis for a Masters) One might assume logically that "ms" means Master of Science.
Unclear as to whether this "mini thesis" was in support of a MS in Poli Sci possibly claimed or if an additional MS degree in something
else as one does not get an MS San Jacinto. ( Apologies, but certain parts of Watie's story are difficult to decipher)


Army ROTC / Joined Army in 1969-74. then to Grad School 1974-1979 but also did Grad school at Tulane in 1976-1978
apparently attending Auburn Grad School concurrent to attendance at Tulane. Somehow during this same period of 1976 -1977 he
was assigned as an advisor with a TXARNG unit with a "Squadron" of M-60 tanks. Maybe part of a Master's Thesis - not sure.

Not sure why Army service was listed as 1969-1974 but could refer to actual AD service period (ref. note 2 below)


Military Service:

1) 20.5 or 25 (depending on the post) years of AUS service as MP/Provost Marshal/specializing in spec
ops/counter-guerrilla training, RAP/RAS/division MP ops, VN & Gulf War Vet MOCS 1542 & 31D35. At one time assigned to US Army Crim Investig Command
2) These 20.5 or 25 years seem to emcompass Reserve Duty and AD
3) Carried a sawed off 12 gauge shotgun on duty overseas allegedly as an MP and in direct violation of Military Regulations.
4) Dual Military Occupational Specialties as 31D35 (military police/miltary intelligence) and 1542 (Aviation Adjutant General's corp)
5) Former US Army Criminal Investigations Division assignment. USACIDC
6) Former "LEO" who refers to another LEO as "the idiot in blue, with badge & gun" recalling an alleged incident at the Pentagon
7) Has been anticipating a CONTUS callup to Iraq for AD since at least as far back as December 2003. Seemingly from 2 weeks to 120 days from happening.
This callup would be for a 58-60 year old vet who was retired due to disability.
As of September 2004 still no callup but his business partner and he are awaiting a "security services contract" anytime now that will
result in his trip to Iraq.
Said contract apparently has not yet materialized but he is currently (Fall 2005) stating he expects to get his CONTUS
orders soon. He has a Master Jailer's Certificate which he hopes to put to good use.
8) 1970-1971 was both in Zwiebrucken, Germany while also being in Texas in 1971 with the TXARNG undergoing testing for his Expert Infantry Badge.
9) 1991-1992 was stationed presumably AD in Venezuela which fits the 25 year service claim but during the very same time period was called up from
retired reserve (medical disability) for duty from the retired reserve, "when the 1st bugle blew" to go fight in the Gulf War (official battle
engagement date Jan 17, 1991) thus again being half a world away at the same time.


Additional Claims:

1) He is writing a book which will be out in spring or summer of 2005 not sure of topic but perhaps about General Sherman. unsure as to new
release date as of Fall 2005.
2) Has an uncle with 2 different names ie: "Wayne Thomas Bankhead" and renamed "William Thomas Bankhead" both listed as PO3s on the USS
Champion during WW2.
3) Former member of NAACP until Indians were "kicked out" for being too conservative. This from an organization that never has denied membership
to any color or creed,
4) Former member of SCLC were he "knew" both Dr. M.L. King and Jesse Jackson so well he knows what Dr. King personally thought of Jackson. further
claims he knew Coretta and MLK's father.
5) His Father knew, liked and was a member of Col. P. Tibbets B-29 flight crew days before the Enola Gay's best "ride".
6) A friend of his named James ____ designed the A-10 Warthog Close Air Support Sled ..... apparently by himself as no other credit is noted.
7) His Army quartersmate was Capt. Damon Runyon relative of the famous author/playwright of the same name.
8) He once had ALL of the active and retired Swiss Military Generals at his home at the same time. All of them.
9) He was a Boy Scout and of course reached Eagle Scout level.
10) His mother recieved a Commendation letter of appreciation from an unamed commanding general "for her assistence (sic) of a vast but
incalculable amount to the deployment & troop support effort during Operation Desert Storm".
11) He met Eddie Rickenbacker's (WWI ace) wingman when Watie was 17 years old.
12) At 16 years old (1964) he was the Campaign Manager for a "Bill Miller" who was running for 1st Congressional District of TX (from a Zell Miller
thread so not sure of the link there as Zell Miller himself ran for Congress that same year in Georgia)
13) Mantains a Confederate sniper snorked a Union Lt from 1600 yards with mid 1800's hardware and that 1600 yards is "more than a mile" thus pointing
out that 1600 > 1760.......but math appears not to be one of his undergraduate or graduate courses of study.
14) Once when investigating a homicide he parked his vehicle seemingly directly over or on top of "a LIVE 250 pound general purpose bomb!" and
even more amazing is that when he returned to his vehicle to use his radio, a bystander said "UH, captain, before you move your jeep, you oughta look
under the right front tire." This bystander amazingly either was close enough to observe this bomb and know what it was and obtuse enough to allow
another unsuspecting person to walk right up to that dangerous situation.



Posting locations and actual verbatim postings can be provided for review/recollection.

If you desire.

Lacuna narro pro lacuna.


Help yourself Mr Honorable!

Fix your reputation as best you can. It ain't my job and never was.

Rhetorical question Stand......why would anyone take your "corrections" to your CV with any more credibility than that with which you wrote the original?

Shoulda left things alone w/o trash talking IMHO.

[jaguaretype]

I'll be happy to post your CV on other threads if you want Stand.

Others might like to note your accomplishments for perspective.

Just let me know.

[jaguaretype]

"What year was that Moline steam tractor again?"

Stand will correct that I'm sure.....but he'll be tied up a bit with other corrections as well so don't hold your breath. LOL!

[mac_truck]

"The year that is drawing towards its close, has been filled with the blessings of fruitful fields and healthful skies. To these bounties, which are so constantly enjoyed that we are prone to forget the source from which they come, others have been added, which are of so extraordinary a nature, that they cannot fail to penetrate and soften even the heart which is habitually insensible to the ever watchful providence of Almighty God. In the midst of a civil war of unequalled magnitude and severity, which has sometimes seemed to foreign States to invite and to provoke their aggression, peace has been preserved with all nations, order has been maintained, the laws have been respected and obeyed, and harmony has prevailed everywhere except in the theatre of military conflict; while that theatre has been greatly contracted by the advancing armies and navies of the Union. Needful diversions of wealth and of strength from the fields of peaceful industry to the national defence, have not arrested the plough, the shuttle, or the ship; the axe had enlarged the borders of our settlements, and the mines, as well of iron and coal as of the precious metals, have yielded even more abundantly than heretofore. Population has steadily increased, notwithstanding the waste that has been made in the camp, the siege and the battle-field; and the country, rejoicing in the consciousness of augmented strength and vigor, is permitted to expect continuance of years with large increase of freedom.

No human counsel hath devised nor hath any mortal hand worked out these great things. They are the gracious gifts of the Most High God, who, while dealing with us in anger for our sins, hath nevertheless remembered mercy. It has seemed to me fit and proper that they should be solemnly, reverently and gratefully acknowledged as with one heart and voice by the whole American People. I do therefore invite my fellow citizens in every part of the United States, and also those who are at sea and those who are sojourning in foreign lands, to set apart and observe the last Thursday of November next, as a day of Thanksgiving and Praise to our beneficent Father who dwelleth in the Heavens. And I recommend to them that while offering up the ascriptions justly due to Him for such singular deliverances and blessings, they do also, with humble penitence for our national perverseness and disobedience, commend to his tender care all those who have become widows, orphans, mourners or sufferers in the lamentable civil strife in which we are unavoidably engaged, and fervently implore the interposition of the Almighty Hand to heal the wounds of the nation and to restore it as soon as may be consistent with the Divine purposes to the full enjoyment of peace, harmony, tranquillity and Union.

Abraham Lincoln -Thanksgiving 1863