Lincoln holiday on its way out (West Virginia)

West Virginia Gazette Mail ^ | 9-8-2005 | Phil Kabler

[Colonel Kangaroo]

Lincoln holiday on its way out

By Phil Kabler Staff writer

A bill to combine state holidays for Washington and Lincoln’s birthdays into a single Presidents’ Day holiday cleared its first legislative committee Wednesday, over objections from Senate Republicans who said it besmirches Abraham Lincoln’s role in helping establish West Virginia as a state.

Senate Government Organization Committee members rejected several attempts to retain Lincoln’s birthday as a state holiday.

State Sen. Russ Weeks, R-Raleigh, introduced an amendment to instead eliminate Columbus Day as a paid state holiday. “Columbus didn’t have anything to do with making West Virginia a state,” he said. “If we have to cut one, let’s cut Christopher Columbus.”

Jim Pitrolo, legislative director for Gov. Joe Manchin, said the proposed merger of the two holidays would bring West Virginia in line with federal holidays, and would effectively save $4.6 million a year — the cost of one day’s pay to state workers.

Government Organization Chairman Ed Bowman, D-Hancock, said the overall savings would be even greater, since by law, county and municipal governments must give their employees the same paid holidays as state government.

“To the taxpayers, the savings will be even larger,” he said.

The bill technically trades the February holiday for a new holiday on the Friday after Thanksgiving. For years, though, governors have given state employees that day off with pay by proclamation.

Sen. Sarah Minear, R-Tucker, who also objected to eliminating Lincoln’s birthday as a holiday, argued that it was misleading to suggest that eliminating the holiday will save the state money.

“It’s not going to save the state a dime,” said Minear, who said she isn’t giving up on retaining the Lincoln holiday.

Committee members also rejected an amendment by Sen. Steve Harrison, R-Kanawha, to recognize the Friday after Thanksgiving as “Lincoln Day.”

“I do believe President Lincoln has a special place in the history of West Virginia,” he said.

Sen. Randy White, D-Webster, said he believed that would create confusion.

“It’s confusing to me,” he said.

Senate Judiciary Chairman Jeff Kessler, D-Marshall, suggested that the state could recognize Lincoln’s proclamation creating West Virginia as part of the June 20 state holiday observance for the state’s birthday.

Proponents of the measure to eliminate a state holiday contend that the numerous paid holidays - as many as 14 in election years — contribute to inefficiencies in state government.

To contact staff writer Phil Kabler, use e-mail or call 348-1220.

[Heyworth]

I did not claim that

Sure you did. In post #1032, you said "If you reread the tables, the 1,918 number does include steam boats."

Now, here's the table again.

If you look, the 1,918 number is the total for:
Ships--811
Barks--305
Brigs--166
Schooners--321
St. Ships--315.
811+305+166+321+315=1,918. Then the NEXT column, the one marked "s. boats", shows 3.566, a number consistent with other sources that point to over 3000 steamboat arrivals per year in that period.

[stand watie]

personal attacks are about ALL they have.

FACTS are also "what we say they are & don't tell us we're wrong or we'll go off in the corner & cry".

free dixie,sw

[stand watie]

well, let's get you to send in your 10 bucks, get the applications & other paperwork to PROVE your Indian ancestry & you'll see it's a LOT more complicated than you say. (note to ALL: MOST things ARE more complicated than the members of the DY coven say they are, when it's a Reb that is talking! otoh, they want us to accept ANYTHING they say as FACT, absent any documentation.)

it took me over SIX (6) months to get my sister, her two children & i accepted for FULL membership in the tribe & i had my grandmother's Oklahoma Female Seminary for Indian Girls (now known as NE OK State University)admittance records (with FIVE complete GENERATIONS of geanological data on our family!) to help me PROVE our ancestry.

try again, mac. that dog won't hunt.

free dixie,sw

[MikefromOhio]

or how about this...

we celebrate the birthdays of these 3 Great Americans, each with their own day.

So that makes 3 holidays :)

Yes I want those days off :)

[stand watie]

as for "FEDERAL recognition", we are going to get it, but MANY of us (including ME!) do NOT want/need it. UNFORTUNATELY we have to have FR to operate "Indian Gaming".

with Federal Recognition" comes Federal CONTROL.

IF you take their money, even a thin DIME,you'll have Federal bureaucrats looking into everything you do, as what the BIA wants is CONTROL. (the standing joke among Indians is that BIA is an acronym for BOSS INDIANS AROUND.)

as for your other SILLY comment about "university", we one day WILL, i believe, have a Community College at our tribal seat in Smith County, but i doubt i'll live to see it. our chief wants a TUITON-FREE Indian-owned college really bad & he usually gets what he wants!

once more, you LOSE, mac, as you "know NOT & know NOT that you know NOT."

btw, when are you going to apologize to me for addressing me as "chief", since it is a title of respect that i am not entitled to AND using the title by a NON-Indian is considered a RACIST SLUR against our people & our culture???

free dixie,sw

[stand watie]

well HELLO, Mr SPIN,

we all thought you had gotten BANNED for your hatefulness, brainlessness & ARROGANT ignorance.

i haven't had you around to ABUSE & RIDICULE.(one of my legion of FAILINGS/character defects,and i have MANY, is that i LIKE bloodsports.)

and i hadn't had almost anyone to laugh AT.

what BILGE, arrogantly DUMB or HATE-FILLED, silly comments are you making today???

free dixie,sw

[mac_truck]

Bill Miller was Barry Goldwater's Vice Presidential candidate.

Lol! Spiro Agnew was Richard Nixon's Vice Presidential candidate. So what?

Your statement by itself is..meaningless. Did you ever actually work for Bill Miller when he was in Congress? Did you ever actually work for him at all?

Somehow I doubt it...

[M. Espinola]

"what BILGE, arrogantly DUMB or HATE-FILLED, silly comments are you making today???"

Okay Norman whatever you say.

[jaguaretype]

OK stand watie.......I'll bite on this newest hyperbole. LOL!

Who is the "nameless/lifeless, SHUNNED one", who is also hate-FILLED.?

I gots ta know!

[Heyworth]

Who is the "nameless/lifeless, SHUNNED one", who is also hate-FILLED.?

That would be me. After I exposed one too many of Watie's lies, he decided that if he stuck his fingers in his ears and went "LA LA LA LA" really loud, I'd no longer exist.

Oh, Watie, I've got a copy of the "Motor Boating and Sailing" article from Dec. 1972 sitting here on my desk, soon to be shared with all here--there goes your last defense on the "it was a book review" front.

[PeaRidge]

"Well stated, in general, and I appreciate that there were sectional differences and economic tensions which played into the south's decision to secede."

I might remind you that in 1860, one-half the population of the state of South Carolina was negro. Practically the entire white population of Haiti had been killed in the slave rebellion there.

"Your comments about the fear of a slave rebellion certainly rang true."

Keep in mind that for more than 30 years, there were those in the North that were actively attempting to get the negro population to rise and kill the whites.

The John Brown affair is said by some to be the beginning of the formation of the Southern Militia.

"A college professor I was talking to a couple of years ago said that there's growing study of that aspect, with a lot of original letters and sources turning up showing just how paranoid that south had become, with masters essentially locking themselves away every night with a pistol under their pillow for fear of their own slaves."

It was not exactly paranoia. This is an original letter from a family in South Carolina:

A mister John L. Roberts, a resident of the upper part of South Carolina was reportedly murdered by his slaves on December 27, 1841. The following letter from H.W. Roberts to Lewis Roberts tells of this event.


Lewis Roberts,
Crosby P. O., Ms

Postmarked and cancelled Feb 9th
State of Mississippi, Kemper County,



“Dear Uncle and Aunt,

I take my pen in hand to inform you of one of the most horrible circumstances ever perpetrated by human cruelty, it is of the murder of Uncle John L. Roberts, whose fate we lament as a relative dear to us all, but it becomes us to submit with reverance to the decrees of Almighty Provider.

“ That dreadful occurrence took place on the night of the 27th of December last, only two days after I had left for home, it was on a Saturday. I left his house and on the succeeding Monday Night that he was slain by his Negroes, while asleep, the particulars of that horrible affair I have not space to relate now.

Suffice it to say he was slain in the most barbarous manner by his own Negroes, who after they had beaten him, in the most cruel manner, with clubs, to death they hauled him about one mile and a half, took him out and carryed him about one hundred yards, threw him down beside a tree, took his braines & rubbed them on the tree to make the neighbors think he had been killed by his mare, he lay here near a week before he was found, the neighbors wrote to me as soon as they found, but having directed the letter to a wrong office I never received it, but merely heard of it by common rumor, which has been very recently.

“The Negroes have been arrested and sent to prison…”



W. F. Roberts.
South Carolina, Fairfield District, January 27th, 1842.

"But you consistently fail to credit the north with any sort of idealism."

I am not going to waste time speculating on that topic.

"For instance, you say 'some wanted secession in order to become free of the controls instituted by the Federal government upon the people of the South to gain control of its raw materials.' In the version of history you present, the north's motivations are always base and money-grubbing."

When it came time to send the military, it was the base, tariff-grubbing Lincoln that made the decision.

"Navigation Acts aren't designed to benefit American commerce and shipping in general, but are a scheme to line the pockets of a few wealthy New Englanders."

Those laws were initially enacted to protect fledging American enterprise of the early 1800s, with the support of many in the South. Hamilton had lauded a system of manufacturing and shipping in the North, supported by the raw materials of the South.

Over years, it evolved to the schemes you described.

"New York's well-sited port and entrepreneurism become sinister."

With the aid of the Commerce Department's Navigation Laws and the Warehousing Acts, the NY system came to dominate the import/export industry.

"Surely the fact that men volunteered for service in the north in such numbers must point to some sort of idealism beyond simply trying to gain control of the south's raw materials and force them to use New York warehouses and New England ships."

See "Uncle Tom's Cabin", the fictional account of slavery.

"Maintaining Sumter and Pickens was Lincoln's responsibility under the Constitution. They were federal property by deed."

Sorry, he may have been responsible to the people for the preservation of the Constitution, but he had no military responsibility. And they were Federal property by ceed, not deed. The Union paid no money for the land. It was given to the Union for its use of protection of the states, not the attack of the states.

"And the call for volunteers and the establishment of the blockade came after Sumter had been fired upon."

And Sumter was fired on after the Federal Warship Harriet Lane blockaded the Harbor of Charleston.

"At that point, the south was seen as being in rebellion."

And the South saw the North as breaking the protections of the Constitution by sending ships and troops to the South and being in a state of war at the time Lincoln dispatched the armada.

"Again, the numbers of men flocking to the colors after Sumter points to something more idealistic than mere economic dominance."

Irrelevant point. Lincoln issued the call, and he was doing so to gain something. What do you think it was?

[Heyworth]

The Union paid no money for the land. It was given to the Union for its use of protection of the states, not the attack of the states.

I'm sorry, I guess I missed the part where Ft. Sumter fired on Charleston first.

And Sumter was fired on after the Federal Warship Harriet Lane blockaded the Harbor of Charleston.

We've gone around on the Harriet Lane before, with you refusing to accept that it was standard practice for revenue cutters to fire a shot across the bows of unflagged ships to make them hoist their colors. The Nashville promptly raised the stars and stripes and went on her way. Not exactly a blockade. And there's no evidence that this action was even known to the gunners of Charleston, much less the cause of their action.

Irrelevant point. Lincoln issued the call, and he was doing so to gain something.

What was FDR attempting to gain when he declared war on Japan? What was President Bush attempting to gain when he invaded Iraq? When Americans are attacked, presidents are supposed to do something. And the call for volunteers wasn't to economically oppress the south and take control of their natural resources. It's akin to saying Bush invaded Iraq for the oil.

I am not going to waste time speculating on that topic.

Exactly my point.

[stand watie]

NOBODY (with the possible exception of "Mr SPIN, the DUMBbunny & HATER) CARES what you think or don't think.

NOPE, i never worked for Bill Miller anytime except when he ran for VP. (that was my FIRST major campaign job.)

free dixie,sw

[stand watie]

to all:

yet ANOTHER meaningless, nonsensical post from FR's DUMBbunny-in-chief = "m.eSPINola"!

to Mr SPIN:

don't you get tired of being laughed AT????

free dixie,sw

[mac_truck]

NOPE, i never worked for Bill Miller anytime except when he ran for VP.

Yeah, you must have made a real impression, working for that Yankee, huh?

Did you attend the GOP convention that year also?

[stand watie]

NOPE.

Bill Miller was decidedly NOT a DAMNyankee.

for one thing, he was NOT a south-HATER!

HATING the southland, our battleflags,our dixie heroes/martyrs, our culture & our PEOPLE is the main REQUIREMENT for BEING a DY.

free dixie,sw

[mac_truck]

seems like yer the lil' hater around here twatie...

[stand watie]

don't you WISH that you were correct????

the DAMNyankee coven has HATRED down pat. and they are VERY good at lies, evasions & spouting 1/2-truths that even a 4YO wouldn't be naive enough to believe.

free dixie,sw

[stand watie]

check your mail, sweetness.

free dixie,sw

[cyborg]

excellent!