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Navy Pilots Who Rescued Victims Are Reprimanded
NY Times ^ | 9/6

Posted on 09/06/2005 8:57:38 PM PDT by Uncle Joe Cannon

PENSACOLA, Fla.,Sept.6-Two Navy helicopter pilots and their crews returned from New Orleans on Aug. 30 expecting to be greeted as lifesavers after ferrying more than 100 hurricane victims to safety.

Instead, their superiors chided the pilots, Lt. David Shand and Lt. Matt Udkow, at a meeting the next morning for rescuing civilians when their assignment that day had been to deliver food and water to military installations along the Gulf Coast.

"I felt it was a great day because we resupplied the people we needed to and we rescued people, too," Lieutenant Udkow said. But the air operations commander at Pensacola Naval Air Station "reminded us that the logistical mission needed to be our area of focus."

The episode illustrates how the rescue effort in the days immediately after Hurricane Katrina had to compete with the military's other, more mundane logistical needs.

Only in recent days, after the federal response to the disaster has come to be seen as inadequate, have large numbers of troops and dozens of helicopters, trucks and other equipment been poured into to the effort. Early on, the military rescue operations were smaller, often depending on the initiative of individuals like Lieutenants Shand and Udkow.

The two lieutenants were each piloting a Navy H-3 helicopter - a type often used in rescue operations as well as transport and other missions - on that Tuesday afternoon, delivering emergency food, water and other supplies to Stennis Space Center, a federal facility near the Mississippi coast. The storm had cut off electricity and water to the center, and the two helicopters were supposed to drop their loads and return to Pensacola, their home base, said Cmdr. Michael Holdener, Pensacola's air operations chief.

"Their orders were to go and deliver water and parts and to come back," Commander Holdener said.

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Front Page News; News/Current Events; US: Louisiana
KEYWORDS: katrina; katrinafailures; redtape; rescue; samaritans; samatarians; usn
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To: 359Henrie
I just don't buy this.

I don't either when you consider that the NYT's has an agenda of it's own..........

101 posted on 09/07/2005 1:48:46 AM PDT by Doofer
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To: MadManDan
There commander doesn't have to reprimand them...

I refuse to register to the NYT's so I didn't read the whole article. Having said that does the article really say that they were reprimanded or is that just an eye catching headline?

102 posted on 09/07/2005 1:53:51 AM PDT by Doofer
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To: Little_shoe
"Wrong"

It would not be the first time I was wrong, and paid the price for being wrong by doing what I think is the right thing. Discipline is good, compassion is also good. As I said, sometimes it is a judgment call an individual must make for themselves, and be prepared to pay the price.
103 posted on 09/07/2005 4:11:23 AM PDT by CIB-173RDABN
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To: Echo Talon
I don't think so, if soldiers did willy nilly what they wanted you have chaos. Follow orders.

They did follow orders. They delivered supplies, and they came back. And they also rescued people, without adversely affecting their mission. This is a no brainer. Good for them!

104 posted on 09/07/2005 4:33:18 AM PDT by Coop (www.heroesandtraitors.org)
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To: Uncle Joe Cannon
The order to halt civilian relief efforts angered some helicopter crews. Lieutenant Udkow, who associates say was especially vocal about voicing his disagreement to superiors, was taken out of the squadron's flying rotation temporarily and assigned to oversee a temporary kennel established at Pensacola to hold pets of service members evacuated from the hurricane-damaged areas, two members of the unit said. Lieutenant Udkow denied that he had complained and said he did not view the kennel assignment as punishment.

Dozens of military aircraft are now conducting search and rescue missions over the affected areas. But privately some members of the Pensacola unit say the base's two available transport helicopters should have been allowed to do more to help civilian victims in the days after the storm hit, when large numbers of military helicopters had not reached the affected areas.

In protest, some members of the unit have stopped wearing a search and rescue patch on their sleeves that reads, "So Others May Live."

Sounds to me like Lieutenant Udkow had a pretty strong row with his commander over his diversion to save lives and was accordingly assigned to puppy-poopy duty as punishment.

I'm all for following orders, as this is absolutely necessary for the military to function, but this was an extraordinary situation that demanded action, and Udkow made the right decision, orders be damned! It seems to me that most of the early trouble that occurred was the result of a complete lack of initiative on everyone's part. So, I think Udkow's commander probably should have looked the other way and let him off with a wink and a nod, rather than assining him to kennel duty. At any rate, the whole incident caused some real dissension within Kudkow's unit since his pards stopped wearing their "search and rescue" patches to make a strong statement to the chain of command. Morale has taken a hit here, and I doubt that any of the other chopper pilots at Pensacola will be showing any initiative to do anything outside of their "stovepipes" after this.

105 posted on 09/07/2005 4:37:50 AM PDT by Virginia Ridgerunner ("Si vis pacem para bellum")
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To: Echo Talon

"And crying to the NYT's won't help anything either other than try and get themselves some kudos that they believe they deserve and reinforce the belief in liberals minds that the military has no control over it's soldiers. How many heroes in Iraq do their jobs everyday and don't go running to the media for a pat on the back?"

Back when I was in there were standing orders to refer all press inquiries to the Public Affairs Officer so this kind of thing didn't happen.

That Helo was one part of the big machine, and may have been slated for another parts run when it returned. The other issue here is that normally these helo crews are flying around all sorts of hazards; powerlines, towers, bridges etc...They normally receive a detailed briefing of all the hazards in the area of the SAR operation. These guys placed themselves and that helo at greater risk by switching to an unbriefed mission.

The military loses many helo's due to hitting wires even during well briefed missions. Maybe the skipper isn't totally FUBAR on this one....He is responsible for that crew and that multi-million dollar helicopter.


106 posted on 09/07/2005 4:46:25 AM PDT by Wristpin ( Varitek says to A-Rod: "We don't throw at .260 hitters.....")
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To: henderson field
Those pilots work for the U.S. taxpayers. They don't work for Commander Holdener. Their money doesn't come from Commander Holdener and neither do their planes. Sometimes judgement has to be used, as was the case here. If the commander was anything but a jerk, he would have said "you know, the orders were to deliver the stuff, but you did the right thing in saving those people." Otherwise, we're no better than the Nazis - just following orders.

Not to be harsh - but the Nazi crap is WAY over the top (and I realize you weren't the first to bring it up).

Those pilots work for Commander Holdener. They had specific orders. They deviated from those orders. They have to live with the consequences.

Cmdr Holdener, however, sounds as if he did the right thing - reminding them of their mission, rapping their knuckles with a wet noodle, and getting on with the mission. Remember, a military effort depends on everyone to do their part, much like the famous story:

For the lack of a nail, the shoe was lost.
For the lack of a shoe, the horse was lost.
For the lack of a horse, the rider was lost.
For the lack of a rider, the battle was lost.
For the lack of a battle, the war was lost.

The pilots did an admirable deed, but they ignored their orders to do so. In a well-disciplined (and therefore effective) military, allowing that to go unremarked would be a tragedy.

107 posted on 09/07/2005 4:46:30 AM PDT by MortMan (Mostly Harmless)
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To: Echo Talon

So when successfully returning from a battle to take Hill Number 73, you stumble on dozens of hungry starving American GIs.

You are to leave them there to die and go straight to your home base?


108 posted on 09/07/2005 4:50:18 AM PDT by linkinpunk
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To: Uncle Joe Cannon; Flyer; Eaker; humblegunner; thackney; Travis McGee; Squantos; TheMom; ...

Seems to me they acted in accordance with their mission and orders...

They are commissioned officers in the U.S. Military...They are supposed to be innovative, practice good initiative, and set examples to the men and women they are in charge of...Period...

So they accomplish their "primary" mission, and see an opportunity to innovate and assist victims of the disaster with their means to accomplish the primary...

I can't see a downside to their "on-the-scene" decision to help some folks out...

The "Crusty ole Chief" side of me, senses a bit of petty jealosy on the part of the C.O. of that squadron...

But thats ok, getting the relief supplies to a place where only a few can benefit from it, and leaving other people where they can't get to the "relief" makes perfect sense to me.../sarcasm

BZ to the two LT's...I'd fly with you guys anyday...


109 posted on 09/07/2005 5:55:32 AM PDT by stevie_d_64 (Houston Area Texans)
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To: Uncle Joe Cannon

If the pilots complained to the NYT, they should be keelhauled.


110 posted on 09/07/2005 5:59:34 AM PDT by verity (Don't let your children grow up to be mainstream media maggots.)
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To: Sthitch

If that were the case, they should have told them to come back asap for that reason. We need more initiative, not more red tape and armchair generals.


111 posted on 09/07/2005 6:02:59 AM PDT by chris1 ("Make the other guy die for his country" - George S. Patton, Jr.)
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To: Echo Talon; stevie_d_64; TheMom

How many Congressional Medal of Honor recipients were "just following orders"?


112 posted on 09/07/2005 6:10:05 AM PDT by Eaker (My Wife Rocks! - I will never take Dix off of my ping list as I have been asked to do.)
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To: verity; Flyer; Eaker; humblegunner; thackney; Travis McGee; TheMom; Squantos; pax_et_bonum; ...

I don't think the pilots who we're reprimanded said anything to the NYT...

I'll look again, but I didn't see an obvious source for this story...

I think this leans towards the Times actually going out of their way to find little snippets of incidences like this, blow it out of context and proportion...

And feed it to the masses of mush-minds that pay to read it...

We see it, and evaluate it for what it is...Garbage...

I was incorrect to assume it was the Commanding Officer of the squadron that berated the pilots...The Air Ops guy was probably a bit over the top in his statements...

I think everyone involved including the pilots, C.O. and the Air Operations guy in question, have already realized the damage this story the NYT wrote about this is doing...

I'm sure the Ops boss is up flying a few of these missions now, and not spending too much time flying that desk of his...He understands now...And thats a good thing...


113 posted on 09/07/2005 6:10:23 AM PDT by stevie_d_64 (Houston Area Texans)
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To: cmotormac44

Good point, sir.

By the way, just to clarify: I have not served. My tagline
honors my son.


114 posted on 09/07/2005 6:16:50 AM PDT by righttackle44 (The most dangerous weapon in the world is a Marine with his rifle and the American people behind him)
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To: ReignOfError
It's equally obvious, at least to me, that doing the right thing sometimes requires breaking the rules and accepting the consequences. That is what these pilots did and I hope that, if I were in their position, I would have the courage to do the same.

Does that apply to the Commander-in-Chief? The President should have broken the rules and sent the Feds into NO immediately after the levees broke regardless of the objections of the Governor or Mayor.

115 posted on 09/07/2005 6:19:40 AM PDT by kabar
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To: stevie_d_64

Seems to me they acted in accordance with their mission and orders...


Thats the way it looks to me too.
Someone mentioned that they were out of communication with their command ( I didn't go to the slimes to read the whole thing) if this is the case , do you know the correct protacal?

It would seem to me that the ranking officer on the scene would be the one to make the call.


116 posted on 09/07/2005 6:26:55 AM PDT by THEUPMAN (#### comment deleted by moderator)
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To: ReignOfError
True. Everything seemed to work out fine. So I'll just leave it with All's well that ends well.
117 posted on 09/07/2005 6:34:51 AM PDT by pollyannaish
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To: pollyannaish

Just another "Much ado about nothing" via the NYT.
Why bother to comment?
They represent the Enemy.


118 posted on 09/07/2005 6:58:59 AM PDT by CBart95
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To: Echo Talon

"what if"

Well, that's life in a nutshell. You can sit around pondering "what if" or you can act. What if the rescued people were slain before another team could get to them? What if this, what if that. We could "what if" all day and at the end exactly nothing would be done.


119 posted on 09/07/2005 6:59:40 AM PDT by No.6 (www.fourthfightergroup.com)
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To: stylin19a
I wonder why sometimes I have to register to read a NYT article and sometimes I don't.

Just use BugMeNot.com.

120 posted on 09/07/2005 7:02:06 AM PDT by Leroy S. Mort
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