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To: RusIvan
Of cause someone doesn't count eastern ukranians as trully ukranians. You too?

Quite a convenient answer.

Don't have the exact numbers but at the first session of the KPU there were something like 20 Jews, 15 Russians, 2-3 Ukrainians- and that's the body representing Ukraine.

Out of the Encyclopedia of Ukraine (Vol 1, pg 551): 1918- 7% Ukrainians, 1920- 19%, 1924- 33%, 1927- 52%, 1934- 60%, 1940- 63%, 1959- 60%, 1968- 65.1%, 1978- 65.8%. Maybe you could answer, why was it that the first Secretary of the Communist Party of Ukraine who was an ethnic Ukrainian was Kyrychenko in 1950s, some 30 years after the Revolution. And that's in the republic which had close to 80% of Ukrainians for most of the time.

Check who was Vladimir Myekovsky and Nikolai Ostrovskii. It is 2 the "singer of revolution". Both are ukranians.

Couldn't find the first guy. Heard of the second. These two and those previous names, (which I'll take you're word for to be Ukrainian) barely represented the Ukrainian peasant, 90% of the Ukrainian nation, and its intelligentsia. With all honesty, we know that black Republicans are a rarity, and an overwhelming majority of blacks vote for the "other" party. Same with Ukrainains in the early Communist party.

The scum you mentioned are sellouts- they're like Jews who turned in Jews to the Nazis, or Africans who would catch other Africans later to be sold into slavery. The communists who you should have mentioned and who actually did something for the Ukrainian nation in that regime, are Skrypnyk (responsible for the Ukrainization in the 20s, later murdered by Stalin in 1933), and Shelest (Ukrainian revival in the 60s, purged in the early 70s). The rest of those "Ukrainians" you can keep.

Check who was "bat'ka Mahno" (the father Mahno) the ally of Red army?

The same one who said "Whip Reds until they turn white, and Whites until they turn red" ? :)

Did you read USSR constitution? Why on earth they needed whole bunch of republics ever if you right?

USSR constitution- you mean the most humane code in existance? The one that allowed republics to secede, yet people who even proposed a discussion on the topic would be charged with treason and shipped to Siberia. No, haven't read that one- I'll just stick to Koschei Bessmertny, Pinocchio and other fairy tales.

Why not call them all "Russia" as you say? If that then it would be so easy.

I've said precisely before- because USSR painted itself to be a democratic state and said to allocate autonomy for the minorities and to be an improvement from the imperial model. They didn't want to isolate the minorities so they've made a compromise. But what would the republic's government decide- budget and industrial development is at the Union level, foreign relations also at the Union level, same with military (if Russia wanted war in Afghanistan, Ukrainian boys from 2000 miles away had to follow). Culture and education was left to the republics, but even these were censored by Moscow.

BUT there no such things for russians! There was RUSSIAN Empire but became 'Soviet Union' not russian union for example

You had RSFSR which was directly governed by the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, the same guys who ran the whole Union. It precisely shows which republic is in control. They didn't even go to trouble of establishing a separate Russian government which would be a subject to All-Union government--> Government of the RSFSR was the government of the Union.

They wanted to show to everyone especialy ethnic russians that Russian Empire is dead and bolshevicks not ethnic russians will rule now in thier new state.

But then why was Russian culture and language formed the basis for the USSR. Thanks to Soviet education there are millions of ethnic Ukrainians who are more familiar with Pushkin than Shevchenko, Suvorov than Sahaidachnyy, etc. Soviets claiming not to be Russian is a cynical joke.

55 posted on 08/30/2005 12:22:22 PM PDT by Mazepa
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To: Mazepa; spanalot; sergey1973

Check who was Vladimir Myekovsky and Nikolai Ostrovskii. It is 2 the "singer of revolution". Both are ukranians.

Couldn't find the first guy. Heard of the second.
hy not call them all "Russia" as you say? If that then it would be so easy. ==

You don't know Myekovskii?:)) You know less about soviet history then I understand why you gave up to russophobic propaganda.

I've said precisely before- because USSR painted itself to be a democratic state and said to allocate autonomy for the minorities and to be an improvement from the imperial model. ==

"Improvement from imperial model"?!:)) Very amusing:).
Why not such "improvement" from britons at same time or later? Why ethnic russians would need such "improvement"?
Accually on earth why ethnic russians would need a state in which they are just biggest minority only? Do russians stupid or what?


It is easy to blame russians but shut up your brains and not think about that "Soviet Union" instead of "Russian Union" or Russian Empire, was created with one purpose- to ensure that new state is NOT russian state anymore.

They didn't want to isolate the minorities so they've made a compromise.==

Why ethnic russians wanted to compromise? They had thier own lands which bigger then of anyone else.
Britons when thier minoroties put up same question just broke up British EMpire and leave it. They were better off.

Same logic applies to russians.
See on recent history. Russians got out from USSR in first ever possibility (1991).
Who ever want to comfort minorities to compromise with them to subsedise them on expense of your own people?

Russians doesn't need to submit themselves for sake of any minorities to progress.
You put up borders and you ensure the favorable prices for your products and you engage trades and that is it.
"Let them be ther but us here" - russian proverb.
But instead ther are created the new state Soviet Union the new "minorities paradise".

Whoever did need it? Not russians.

Russian Empire likewise British Empire was RUSSIAN state which was run by russian emperor and for sake russian people. No one of russians wanted new Soviet Union the state in which your people will not anymore to prevail.

So in reality it was that russians who opposed reds at start. And Red bolshevicks had to win 4 year long Civil War to get power in Russian Empire in order to convert it to SOviet Union.
With help of all minorities of former Russian Empire, the Reds won that war and all grim consequances of it happened later.


56 posted on 08/30/2005 11:38:35 PM PDT by RusIvan
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