They better watch out or the "hamburglar" will get them!
Posted on 08/25/2005 5:40:10 AM PDT by .cnI redruM
Liberal reporters since 9-11 have frequently equated conservative Christians with Quran-thumping Muslims, but the differences between the two religions are huge. For example, Islam initially expanded through the slaughter of opponents, but Christianity grew through the martyrdom of believers -- and the apostle Paul taught Christians in Rome, "If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink."
Early this week, Pat Robertson, on his long-running TV show "The 700 Club," seemed more Muslim than Christian when he suggested that U.S. operatives assassinate Venezuelan dictator Hugo Chavez. Yesterday, he said he was misinterpreted and was suggesting kidnapping, not necessarily assassination, but he already had caused an international furor by using the A-word.
The televangelist should have remembered Spiderman's message that "with great power comes great responsibility." By his blurting, Robertson aided Venezuelan autocrats such as Vice President Jose Vicente Rangel, who sarcastically said that assassination advocacy was "very Christian" and went on to argue that "religious fundamentalism is one of the great problems facing humanity."
National and international journalists also played up the story, often treating Robertson as if he were the Protestant pope, as did some Islamic groups. Under a press release heading, "Pat Robertson's Fatwa," the Muslim American Society screamed that "someone should remind the darling of the Christian Right about the Ten Commandments. About the one that says 'thou shall not kill.' If that had been a Muslim cleric talking about killing a head of state, you would have never heard the end of it."
(Actually, Muslim clerics have done more than talk -- their fatwa followers have murdered intellectuals such as Faraj Foda, Hussein Muruwwa, Mahmoud Taha and Al-Sadeq Al-Nayhoum, and U.S. reporters have largely ignored that.)
None of these prudential concerns would matter much if Pat Robertson were biblically correct in calling for assassination -- but it's hard to see either general or specific biblical warrant for his fatwa. In general, as Paul wrote to Timothy, Christians are to pray "for all people, for kings and all who are in high positions."
Hugo Chavez is an evil tyrant, but so were many Roman emperors -- and Paul told Romans to "bless those who persecute you. ... Repay no one evil for evil, but give thought to do what is honorable in the sight of all." Last time I looked, "assassin" was not on the general list of honorable callings. Wartime is different, but last time I looked, we weren't at war with Venezuela.
Applying Old Testament history to current politics is sometimes exegetically tricky, but the wartime assassinations in Judges 3 and 4 -- Jael hammering a tent peg into Sisera's brain, Ehud the left-handed man thrusting his sword into the fat belly of the king of Moab -- also do not provide warrant for taking out Hugo Chavez. Nor do any of Christ's words or deeds suggest a WWJA (Who Would Jesus Assassinate?) list.
The people most affected by last week's tempest, of course, were Venezuelans, one of whom wrote on www.worldmagblog.com of Chavez's demagoguery and election-rigging, but noted that "after decades of corruption and ignoring the needs of the poor, our country may deserve a leader like Chavez. The fact is that Venezuela needs revival; corruption ... is a way of life there. All potential leaders are corrupt, and we could end up with someone worse than Chavez. Pray for my people!" Prayer should also be for missionaries who now face greater danger.
God is the God of history. He raises up leaders and strikes them down. The Christian goal is to follow biblical principles, including "just war" ones, and not to create new orders. Christians who are careless bring dishonor to God's name by making many believe there is no difference between the pre-eminent religion of peace and the many religions of violence.
Maybe some glasnost and perestroika for Venezuela would bring down the Chavez government.
oh, puhleeeze. get over it already. first everyone hates Pat Buchanan, then everyone hates Pat Robertson. Who's next?
The writer and many posting on this thread are ignoring this:
Jesus said to his disciples that if anyone "shall offend" (KJV) or "put a stumbling block" (NRSV) before one of Jesus' "little ones," it would be better for that person "to be thrown into the sea with a large millstone tied around his neck" (Mk 9:42)
Jesus was not speaking in jest.....
There are many revisionists here on FR - a great many of them are sleepers
Regarding Clinton, I believe we were on the wrong side in ex-Yugoslavia and should have backed the Serbs, our World War II allies, against the Albanians, Croatians, and Bosnian Muslims, who had been allies of Hitler in that war. However, should we blame Clinton's errors in Yugoslavia on virtually every president since William McKinley because they used American armed forces to intervene in overseas affairs? Perhaps, as you suggested, it would have been unwise to assassinate Saddam Hussein. However, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Nixon, and Reagan authorized, or at least permitted, the assassinations of foreign leaders. Their decisions (except for Kennedy's permitting the assassination of Diem in South Vietnam) helped advance American interests.
Any tool or strategy of government in the conduct of foreign or domestic affairs can be abused. However, their use is at times necessary.
Recall God's words to Moses? "Tell them the I Am sent you." God was, is, and always will be. Recall Genesis? "In the beginning God created..." That was the beginning acording to mankind - not God's beginning. Man's rights are relative - dependent upon his place with God and mankind and expire with time. God is the essence of "rights" - none exist apart from His grace to grant them. That's eternal, that's absolute.
"Can God act so as to violate a right?"
Again, your assessment of whether He may or may not violate a "right" is limited by its relativity to the human perspective.
"Is there anything he has no right to do?"
If so, why then would we call Him Sovereign?
"If not, what does saying that he has the right to do something mean?"
I didn't bring that up. I merely aimed to point out that questioning God's "rights" is a futile exercise of worthless effort because - as stated before - man's perspective of "rights" would not exist apart from His grace to grant them.
Apart from God's grace - man owns nothing of significance in this Universe, he has no net worth, no "rights", no grounds to state his case before the Host High. Mankind - in his thousands of years on earth - has created nothing. He's only borrowed resources to make other conveniences - but never has man created anything. Mankind, as a whole, are either tenants of a gracious Landlord or alien squatters on another's property.
When mankind thinks he has any deserved "rights" apart from the Sovereign, it's only a short while before man is proved wrong and he falls.
But that's my perspective....;-)
better to match pat's "ministry"
The most moronic thing on the planet is when people confuse personal morality with public morality. There are some things that it is appropriate for an individual to do, and not a nation-state. The opposite is also true. It is morally wrong for an individual to premptively kill for his own security, to inflict punishment of his own choosing for a wrong he has suffered, to intimidate and threaten others to promote his own interests. A nation-state that does not do any of those things is failing in its responsibilities to its citizens.
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"I would say God has the power but not the right to do so."
Then you are in conflict with Revelation 19 where Jesus is pictured coming out of heaven with a sword. Many, including me, believe that is the point where the War--or Battle, if you wish--of Armageddon takes place. Or Isaiah 63:
1Who is this who comes from Edom,
With garments of glowing colors from Bozrah,
This One who is majestic in His apparel,
Marching in the greatness of His strength?
"It is I who speak in righteousness, mighty to save."
2Why is Your apparel red,
And Your garments like the one who treads in the wine press?
3"I have trodden the wine trough alone,
And from the peoples there was no man with Me
I also trod them in My anger
And trampled them in My wrath;
And their lifeblood is sprinkled on My garments,
And I stained all My raiment.
4"For the day of vengeance was in My heart,
And My year of redemption has come.
Just doesn't look like God asks ANYONE for permission to unleash his wrath. Looks as if He asserts His own right and doesn't consult with us Freepers at all.
By the way, this passage speaks of nations right around Israel.
To use a hypothetical about Bush doesn't work and I would say its dangerous not to believe God rather than man.
I know a man who is a prophet who wrote Bush Sr. and told him God had said he needs to take out Saddam in the first war or God would remove him. This was written to Bush while he had approval ratings in the 90's. What happened? He was beaten by a long shot joke from Arkansas who slept and played while Americas enemies plotted against us.
I would say Satan tried to take down Reagan using a deranged,demonized, lunatic but God intervened because he would use Reagan to bring down the Soviets.
If the Bible is not true and I must pick only choice parts from it that I can handle or explain to my mind then I may as well burn it because its just a fairy tale. It however is not.
They better watch out or the "hamburglar" will get them!
I disagree. He did not call for followers of his religion to do this task, but said something like 'if the guy thinks the USA is trying to take him out, maybe we should'. A far cry from a muslim cleric calling for an assasination. I think his statement was stupid, and I think much of the analysis of it has been more supiderest...
No, the point is that the Communist USSR did most of the fighting and dying in WW2, not the US or UK....the numbers are not even close, civilian or military.
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"I know a man who is a prophet who wrote Bush Sr. and told him God had said he needs to take out Saddam in the first war or God would remove him."
"I know a man who is a prophet"? And your friend hears God talking to him? And then he writes the POTUS to let him know what God wants? I think that you and I are operating in different realities. Good luck.
Thanks for the compliment but I haven't advanced that far yet, lol!
In the Bible it says "though shall not murder, not though shall not kill". So is killing a monster tyrant murder?
LOL, your expectancy may last 9 months, lol. Kidding but it's going to be awhile as I don't have all day to sit around experimenting. My husband would give me the evil eye.
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