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To: antiRepublicrat

"Under islamic law, a woman is NOT allowed to initiate divorce."

Again, I reiterate...she is not.

You state: "Under the Quran it is."

Not true Read: Ibn Abidin, 2:415; al-Mughni, 8:234.
"Talaq", Shorter Encyclopaedia of Islam (Leiden: E.J. Brill, 1974).
al-Ikhtiyar, 3:182.
al-Bukhari, Talaq 1-9, Ahkam, 13; Muslim, Talaq 44, Radha` 67-70,73; Abu Dawud, Nikah 4, Talaq 1-5; Ibn Maja, Talaq 2; al-Darimi, Wudhu' 93, Talaq 1; al-Muwatta', Talaq 53; Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, 2:62,63,81; 3:82,62,87.
Cf. al-Jaziri, 4:322-332.
al-Ikhtiyar, 3:190-191.
al-Bukhari, Talaq 3,7,37; Abu Dawud, Talaq 49; al-Nasa'i, Talaq 9; Ibn Maja, Talaq 32; al-Muwatta', Nikah 17-18; Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, 1:214; 2:25,85; 6:42,96,193.
W. Juynboll, p.229.
al-Jaziri, 4:280.
al-Sabuni, 1:344, also Mahmud Shaltut, al-Islam `aqida wa Shari`a, p.172.
al-Aqqad, al-Mar'a fi al-Qur'an, p.103ff.
ibid. p.105.



You state: "but, in accordance with justice, the rights of the wives (with regard to their husbands) are equal to the (husbands;) rights with regard to them, although men have precedence over them (in this respect). And God is almighty wise." (2:228)
This says they're equal."

No, this distinctly states they are NOT equal and the men have precendence over them.

You: "The later inequality is only in the context of the man having a duty to support his wife. He is given extra powers commensurate with that extra responsibility."

And double the assets of the woman. Again, no equality here.

In other words, your reasoning is that the man deserves the greater portion because a woman is incapable of supporting herself. (Nida li al-jins al-latif, p.11. Salih, al-Hidad li'm ra'at al-Haddad).

You: "If a wife fears cruelty or desertion on her husband's part, there is no blame on them if they arrange an amicable settlement between themselves; and such settlement is best." (Quran sura 4, aya 128).

Me: "But even so, SHE CANNOT, under sharia, initiate a divorce.
Again, a woman ... is NOT entitled to an equal share of the marital assets. She is considered, under sharia, as half a man. In matters of marriage and inheritance.

You: "No, not an equal share."

That's what I said.

"The Bible provides nothing for the woman in the case of a divorce."

We're not talking about the Bible. The topic is sharia. Except for islam, no other religion, or country for that matter, imposes religion as a law for it's inhabitants.

You: "She is considered, under sharia, as half a man.
That is for testimony,"

You prove my point of the inequality between men and women under sharia.

You: "They also thought women were more emotional and therefore might distort facts due to their emotions.

Anyone who's married can understand that one ;>)."

I'll let that statement from you speak for itself.


You: "To be fair, the Quran was written long after the Bible, and society had evolved a bit as far as consideration for women."

In light of the above, it is apparent islamic law needs to evolve much, much more in it's consideration of women.



255 posted on 08/23/2005 9:06:27 AM PDT by milford421
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 251 | View Replies ]


To: milford421
In other words, your reasoning

Not my reasoning, their reasoning, which was applicable in their society. I notice you quote a lot of Hadith instead of Quran. You may want to know that not all Hadith is universally accepted by all Muslims. They were also often written by the same type of misogynists that are in charge of most Muslim countries today.

But even so, SHE CANNOT, under sharia, initiate a divorce.

I never claimed she gets half of his assets (which itself would cause problems if he had more than one wife). You, however, claimed she cannot initiate divorce, which she clearly can.

In light of the above, it is apparent islamic law needs to evolve much, much more in it's consideration of women.

Of course it does. I never claimed otherwise. But it is not as bad as people such as you claim it is. What is bad is misogynistic interpretations.

258 posted on 08/23/2005 10:07:53 AM PDT by antiRepublicrat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 255 | View Replies ]

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