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1 posted on 08/21/2005 1:18:04 AM PDT by MRMEAN
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To: MRMEAN

Yes, Creationism has unanswered questions, but that's how faith works...


2 posted on 08/21/2005 1:28:35 AM PDT by Birdsbane (If You Are Employed By A Liberal Democrat...Quit!)
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To: MRMEAN
Yes, no area of science is free of doubts but evolution is so full of hole it makes a swiss cheese look solid, AND most evos, the scientists that is, won't admit it, and stoop to lying and faking evidence because they can't find the real evidence to support there theory.

Transitional specie fosils have been faked many, many, times. The faking is stil going on too, witness the latest fakes from China concerning dino to bird artifacts.

Yes, creationism and ID have many holes also but I think evolution should be taught fully, by fully I mean all the fakes, all the evidence that doesn't exist, all the theories that are presented as fact should be taught the way they really exist.

If this is the best we have then say so but be honest about it, tell them the truth about Lucy for instance, she is a chimpanzee, we know that now for sure but die hard evos keep saying she is a link.

Teach the truth, how hard can that be? Don't want to teach ID, fine, but teach the truth about evolution. Science has always had gaps and false trails, and scientists have always covered them, the false trails,lying and trying to hold on to something that was wrong. Evolution has reached that point where the evidence in the fossil record shows it has many, many gaps in the theory and it needs to be taught that way.Darwin was wrong in many of his suppositions. Teach the truth, it can't hurt.

Don't you agree?

4 posted on 08/21/2005 1:33:48 AM PDT by calex59
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To: MRMEAN
Quote: When it comes to the origin of life on this earth, there are only two possibilities: creation or spontaneous generation (evolution). There is no third way. Spontaneous generation was disproved 100 years ago, but that leads us only to one other conclusion: that of supernatural Creation. We cannot accept that on philosophical grounds (personal reasons); therefore, we choose to believe the impossible: that life arose spontaneously by chance.

(George Wald, winner of the 1967 Nobel Prize in Science)

6 posted on 08/21/2005 1:41:27 AM PDT by fish hawk (I am only one, but I am not the only one.)
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To: MRMEAN

It is not merely that the theory of evolution has unanswered questions, it has a LOT of unanswered questions. Plus a plethora of unasked questions.

Which shall become apparent only upon the resolution of some of the questions already on the table.

I have always been troubled by chromosone counts, and how different species could have arisen by fractionation or fusion of various gene chains within chromosones. Cloning is a possibility, but WHAT DRIVES THE CLONING? This is surely not a random occurrence.


13 posted on 08/21/2005 2:39:59 AM PDT by alloysteel ("Master of the painfully obvious.....")
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To: MRMEAN
ID won't take its adherents within a thousand miles of the metaphysical concepts they're shooting for. It's based on an old analogy: the world is like a design, therefore it had a designer. Some (very serious) problems:

1 It gives no grounds for the existence of one, as opposed to numerous designers. The more complex a design, the more designers it tends to have (to say nothing of the craftsmen who put it together). Is ID being arbitrary--and a tad simplistic--in inferring only one?

3 You judge a designer by what he designs. Take a good look at this slaughterhouse! The natural world contains good, bad, and ugly. The best we can conclude is that the designer is indifferent--or very moody.

3 We are not justified in attributing to the cause more than what was required to produce the effect. Just because the designer could fashion this world does not mean he's all-powerful and capable of our wildest fantasies (a perfect after-life, for instance). The design argument can be used just as well, if not much better, by Hindus and pagans (many gods) and Zoroastrians (two gods: one nice, one bad). The contention that it suggests the existence of a Western-style deity is as hilarious as it is disingenuous.

Arguments based on analogies are notoriously weak. They have this basic structure: X shares certain features of Y, therfore X shares these additional features of Y. In the case of the design argument: the universe has parts that work together (like a clock, for instance); therefore, like a clock, it also had a designer.

Big problem: Such arguments are no better than the analogy they are based on (is the universe _really_ like a clock, or any design we know of?) The following seem equally tenable:

The universe is like a living creature; therefore another such creature gave birth to it.

The universe is like a plant; therefore it grew from some celestial garden.

Which of the above is more absurd? Is the universe more like a clock, vegetable, or animal? They're all preposterous because the universe is unique. We can't honestly say that it's _like_ anything. Consequently, all arguments based on analogies fail.

14 posted on 08/21/2005 2:40:30 AM PDT by Petronius (Hunter S. Thompson: Shine On You Crazy Diamond!)
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To: PatrickHenry

Ping.


15 posted on 08/21/2005 2:43:21 AM PDT by ml1954
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To: MRMEAN
Evolution is as believable as Bill Clinton on a golf course.
18 posted on 08/21/2005 3:19:59 AM PDT by HisKingdomWillAbolishSinDeath (Pray for America like its future depended on it, because it does!)
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To: MRMEAN

You can study physical evidence all you want and make conclusions, but it really comes down to the Big Bang, and what happened/existed BEFORE the BB, or if the BB is only a part of a Bigger Bang. The secularists will simply fall on the explanation that it just IS. Some already have.


27 posted on 08/21/2005 4:17:44 AM PDT by AmericanChef
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To: MRMEAN

I think it's funny to consider that both schools arent totally right because both are wrong on the time frame. Many think G*d created the universe in 7 days. That's fine but what if 7 days to G*d is 7 billion years to us? Just a thought.


34 posted on 08/21/2005 4:52:50 AM PDT by DogBarkTree
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To: MRMEAN

"The man who cannot believe his senses and the man who cannot believe anything else, are both insane, but their insanity is proved not by any error in their argument, but in the manifest mistake of their whole lives. They have both locked themselves up in two boxes, painted inside with the sun and stars; they are both unable to get out, the one into the health and happiness of heaven and the other even into the health and happiness of the earth."

G.K.Chesterton
Orthodoxy, 1908


37 posted on 08/21/2005 5:17:59 AM PDT by n230099
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To: MRMEAN

BTTT


47 posted on 08/21/2005 6:00:40 AM PDT by Uncle Fud (Imagine the President calling fascism a "religion of peace" in 1942)
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To: MRMEAN
For me, this argument is a matter of humility. Modern science does not seem to have a mechanism in place to distinguish between what we really understand, and what we are really just trying to figure out. We are experts in Newtonian physics. We are beginners in genetics. Objectively, we understand so little about the interactions between genes and biology, that perhaps we are not ready to raise a flag of truth and defend that hill to our deaths. But, that is what the evolutionists do. We don't even understand the way the life works that is all around us. How can we "know" what can happen to it over vast time periods? I understand that ID is not really a proper theory, but aren't there fields of scientific discover where we don't really know enough to speak intelligently? Who can tell us that this area or that of science is the phrenology of our time?

Science is not about truth per se. It was about what we can objectively theorize about truth. We know that we don't understand how gravity fits into physics. We know that all our formulae that don't have a gravity component are wrong. As a practical matter, we ignore this because the equations seem to be useful. But don't we know they don't contain "the" truth? And can we be certain that the part we know we are missing might not be important? Evolution theory needs a healthy dose of humility. It is just possible we are at the caveman throwing rocks at the moon stage of this field of study. No one ever said all science would be easy to understand.
52 posted on 08/21/2005 6:22:53 AM PDT by BillCompton
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To: MRMEAN
Creation is a crutch for folks who hope (believe) that the school bully will be punished in the "here after" and that since they were meek and pure they'll be rewarded.

It ain't so.

54 posted on 08/21/2005 6:24:32 AM PDT by sandydipper (Less government is best government!)
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To: MRMEAN
Why don't you "Evolutionists" get a life. First of all, your headline is wrong. It should read, "Yes, the THEORY of evolution still has unanswered questions. Science may or may not be able to answer them."

Second, you guys have really got to find another hobby!

78 posted on 08/21/2005 7:25:17 AM PDT by Doc Savage (...because they stand on a wall, and they say nothing is going to hurt you tonight, not on my watch!)
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To: MRMEAN

I have a serious question and would like to avoid the "you're an idiot" nature of these threads.

This is directed to the pro-evolutionists primarily and it is a good faith attempt to understand something. So here goes.

IF God exists, then what sort of evidence would there be of that in the physical world?

If you say that that is not the province of science, then my response would be that science is not doing enough of its job. If you say that science must assume that God doesn't exist or at least if He does then there is no evidence of it in the physical world, then isn't the correct response that science the is by its very nature assuming a negative response to the question at hand?

Ask any philosopher worth his salt and he will tell you that it is possible that God exists. If that is possible, then I want to know how that is manifest in the physical world. But one problem is that I see science is not by its very nature willing to entertain such a discussion.

What am I missing here? If someone could give a good natured but hard headed post I would be grateful.


86 posted on 08/21/2005 7:38:43 AM PDT by ConservativeDude
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To: MRMEAN

>>For as the auxin saga shows, virtually no area of science is free of doubt...<<

So true of science! Unfortunately, a point lost on religious evolutionists here.


95 posted on 08/21/2005 7:52:50 AM PDT by RobRoy (Child support and maintenance (alimony) are what we used to call indentured slavery)
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To: MRMEAN
I'm skeptical that man evolved from the apes. I am, however, open to the argument that they've occasionally interbred.
99 posted on 08/21/2005 7:56:00 AM PDT by RichInOC (Lynndie England...Child Of Incest Or Part Chimp?)
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To: MRMEAN
1. Nothing Exists

2. Granting that something does exist, it's ultimate nature would be infinite and therefore, unintelligible to a finite mind.

3. Granting something to exist, and that it could be understood, it couldn't be explained to another.

-Jainist Conundrum

150 posted on 08/21/2005 10:13:58 AM PDT by Psycho_Bunny (Every evil which liberals imagine Judaism and Christianity to be, islam is.)
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To: MRMEAN
In 1885, scientists discovered a plant-growth hormone and called it auxin.

What did auxin evolve from?

159 posted on 08/21/2005 11:11:17 AM PDT by Texas Eagle (If it wasn't for double-standards, Liberals would have no standards at all.)
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To: MRMEAN

Evolution, Eugenics, Socialism.


177 posted on 08/21/2005 12:09:52 PM PDT by Crawdad (I know we've only known each other 4 weeks and 3 days, but to me it seems like 9 weeks and 5 days)
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