Court rules atheism a religion

WorldNetDaily ^

[Joe 6-pack]

Ok, but is agnosticm a religion?

I'm not sure...

[Cboldt]

Heh. Just found this thread, and likely not the first to wonder this ...

The court's rule makes "separation of church and state" a bitch.

[ThePythonicCow]

From commentary on Torcaso v. Watkins (1961) at atheism.about.com:

Significance

This decision prohibited the government from using religious faith as one of the criteria for assuming public office. The Court rejected the argument that holding such jobs is a privilege that can be restricted to people of some prescribed religious belief.

One of the reasons this case is important is some of the dicta which were attached to the final opinion. The term dicta is a plural and shortening of "obiter dictum," or "said in passing." Such statements are personal opinions of the justice - they are not necessary to the final result and have no legal force.

In a dictum footnote attached to this opinion, Justice Black wrote:

Among the religions in this country which do not teach what would generally be considered a belief in the existence of God are Buddhism, Taoism, Ethical Culture, Secular Humanism, and others.

This is frequently cited by people on the religious right as that the Supreme Court has declared Secular Humanism to be a religion, but such people are simply unaware of the fact that dicta have no legal force. Ignoring this uncomfortable fact, however, allows them to argue that any hint of Secular Humanism in schools is a violation of the separation of church and state - an ironic argument, since they would be happy to dispense with separation anyway.

[Ghost of Philip Marlowe]

If only atheists existed, then you'd be right. It would be an oxymoron. And trying to contemplate God under such conditions would be like the exercise of trying to hear the sound of one hand clapping.

But atheists do not exist in a vacuum. Their belief is in opposition to one of several views of God that they have heard from believers. As the kite only works so long as it is anchored by a string, atheism only exists in relation to belief.

And in practical application in today's culture, atheists are in opposition largely to those who hold a Judeo-Christian view of God and, to a lesser degree, a Moslem view. I don't hear atheists complaining about Buddhism, Taoism and Shintoism all that much.

Thus it is a god-view in the theological arena and is therefore a type of religion.

[ThePythonicCow]

Their [atheists] belief is in opposition to one of several views of God that they have heard from believers.

True enough - when I clarify what I mean when I state that I am an atheist, I state that I am certain that there is no God, as understood by the major theist religions of our times, and the ordinary religious people of my community.

Though arguing whether this makes atheism a religion, or not, risks getting hung up on the meanings of words. I would say that like many words, the word "religion" has multiple related meanings, some of which would encompass atheism, and some of which definitely would not.

[Ghost of Philip Marlowe]

And we can have dialectic arguments until we are both blue in the face and get nowhere except making ourselves feel undeservedly intellectual.

The practical aspect of this discussion is of greater importance. An underwhelming minority of the people in this country are doing away with the public practice of religion. Not only is this undemocratic, it's unconstitutional. A large number of those on the "atheist" side, perhaps not you, are statists who know that Statism must be its own god, that it controls the people better if religion is muted.

Thus the --potential-- importance of this ruling. It allows the 90-some% of the population who believe in a god to allow him to remain in public life, thus muzzling the statists enough to let everyone be heard.

[Sonny M]

If atheist is a recongnised religion, this throws a whole new thing into the courts with a whole new ballgame.

Personally, I also think enviornmentalism is a religion, but thats another thread and another post entirely.

[TypeZoNegative]

I should have been more specific. What version of god was this country founded on? The Puritian version? If so, then the fact that you're posting here on a Saturday proves that we can't have a Theological-based society in the United States.

[JWinNC]

strange, strange world... "atheist" , "religion" , etc... have lost their meanings

[Sender]

Athesism is a deligion.

[CourtneyLeigh]

Oh yes. This is a "Long Time Coming"! OVER DUE! What TOOK THEM SO LONG!

Now can the lost recognize the fact that Atheism has nothing to do with Science. Just as Evolution doesn't either.
Next Big Step:

Make Evolution A Religious Creed of Unproven Theories!

[beerhunter0378]

What do you get when you cross an Atheist, with an Insomniac, with a Dyslexic?

[beerhunter0378]

A guy who stays up all night, wondering if there really is a Dog.

[DaveTesla]

"Statism must be its own god"

Bravo!

That's always been the plan.
Get rid of GOD and replace him with the state.
Or better yet replace him with the derelicts who have
infiltrated our government who wish to be GOD.

When one removes GOD lots of little demigods show up to take his place.
One big difference between our GOD is ours is a forgiving
God who gives us the oppertunity to choose him.
Their god on the other hand if you cross him you take a dirt nap.


It's for the children and for your own good don't you know...

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1428169/posts?page=46#46

[DaveTesla]

oppertunity = opportunity
oops...

[DaveTesla]

Even David Horowitz who is an ex- communist/leftist and an agnostic gets it.

A quote from Radicl Son:

All radicalisms are variations on the story of Babel. They are people
trying to reach heaven (or build a heaven on earth) by human means. That
is why they end in such misery and horror. Leftism is a form of idolatry
in which human beings worship themselves as though they were gods and saviors.

[Texas_Conservative2]

To teach evolution is to promote one of the main tenants of atheism. I'm glad the courts are finally starting to see this fact.

[ThePythonicCow]

I fully support returning religion, especially Christianity, to public life in this country. Though I am an atheist, I abhor most of what is done in the name of atheism. This country was founded by Christians, and depends on the strength that faith brings to its citizens for its continued well being. It is also fiercely tolerant of other religions and non-religions, for which I am most grateful.

The twisting by the ACLU, with the concurrence of the courts, of the establishment clause to a banning of religious expression in public life is part of a substained and massive effort to bring down this great nation, destroy our freedom, and replace our republic with tyranny, which is where statism, secularism and socialism lead.

I no more encourage others to become atheists than Jim Robinson encourages others to become wheel chair bound. I would no more vote for an atheist for President, than I would select Jim to be on an NBA basketball team if I owned one. Sorry, Jim.

We all have our limitations, our strengths, and our various ways of contributing.

If I thought this ruling contributed to muzzling statists, I'd gladly join in the celebration.

As I explained in my first post on this thread, I don't think this ruling gains us much of anything, and it risks raising false hopes.

[Sender]

I dunno, what?

[Sender]

Oh, ha ha! Already answered.