Natalee Holloway - Case Discussion Extended Thread 15

Various News Outlets | 8/19/05

[TexKat]

Profile of Natalee Holloway

Missing: Natalee Holloway participated in a trip with 125 seniors from Mountain Brook High School to Aruba in the Caribbean. In the early morning hours on May 30, 2005 Natalee was seen leaving a nightclub and getting into a vehicle. She failed to turn up Monday morning for her return flight home and she has not been seen since. Foul play is suspected in her disappearance.

Profile: Natalee Holloway was born on October 21, 1986 to Beth and Dave Holloway. She grew up in the close-knit community of Mountain Brook, a suburb of Birmingham, Alabama. She was very popular and respected by her classmates and had a reputation among peers at being very intelligent and focused on her future. She lived up to her reputation, graduating as an honors student from the Mountain Brook High School.

Extracurricular Activities: During Natalle's high school years she participated several extracurricular activities including: The American Field Service - A club which interacts with the foreign exchange students. Dorians Dance Team Future Business Leaders of America Mu Alpha Theta - Math honor society Natural Helpers - A peer based emotional support group. Outdoors Club Spanish Club Spanish Honor Society Spartan Pride - School pep group. TASC - Teens Actively Serving the Community

Future Goals: Natalee received a full scholarship to the University of Alabama. She planned to major in Pre-Med, in order to pursue her goal of being a pediatrician.

[truthluva]

Bingo!! This is the story that Greta and all the other investigative journalist need to bring to the surface. Natalee is not the first and unless this is exposed...she will not be the last.

[theophilusscribe]

Request From Dave Holloway
http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/09/request_from_da.html

Received an email from Dave H tonight asking me to place this on the website. I'm setting the time ahead to keep it at the top. Please do not bombard the email address with non-relevant, or non-serious tips and information. The family clearly wants people to feel free to come forward with information and they will guarantee you anonymity. Please consider writing if you have a legitimate lead that might help find Natalee Holloway, or resolve her disappearance. HELPFINDNATALEE@COMCAST.NET
__________________________

Just A Few Items
http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/08/just_a_few_item.html

Waiting on some additional developments but did want to mention a couple of things.

I was able to confirm through another independent party that there was an individual who spent the night at Joran's apartments the night of Natalee Holloway's disappearance - and he has been questioned a number of times.

Also, you really do have to parse information coming out very carefully. It is very likely that there were only three serious story changes for the primary suspect, perhaps the second more troubling than the first.

It is possible that the first story change was from claiming that Natalee was dropped off at the hotel, to Joran Van der Sloot leaving her on the beach. It is also possible given the evidence of time records and such, that it will be determined that Deepak and Satish Kalpoe did lie for a friend by going along with the first story when it wasn't true - taking Joran at his word that Natalee would show up.

Where things get more complex would be the second story of how Joran arrived home. You would think that the first scenario might be understood as some boys covering for one another in what they thought was an innocent event. But a further lie, or confusion as to the journey home seems to me to be a bit harder for Van der Sloot to explain. If nothing else, we can assert that he is capable of repeatedly lying to authorities while a young girl he was seen with last is missing. That's difficult to rationalize as anything but guilt.

However, the statement that Jossy Mansur brought forward is clearly a sham and more an interrogation technique than a confession of any kind. Yes, the interrogators wrote up a narrative in which Van der Sloot appeared to have blamed everything on Deepak.

But a lack of his signature and only the signatures of the interrogators suggests this was more ploy than plea. It also proved ineffective when show to Deepak Kalpoe - which suggests he may really not know anything. If he had, and Joran was the primary perpetrator - it's hard to imagine he wouldn't have given him up right there ... or even now for a reward. That didn't happen, so far as we can be ascertained. If phone records show the Kalpoes at home by 2:30 or so without going back out - it is hard to see how they were involved.

Another note - I have seen a document purportedly from NBC for circulation which states that Beth Twitty took the video tape when confronting Deepak at the Internet Cafe and later provided it to NBC. I have not written NBC's public relations area to ascertain the validity of this statement. I'd encourage someone to do that if they are interested in that specific bit of information.

Certainly, if the new witness who now claims to have been raped and possibly drugged by Joran holds up, obviously that would begin an entire new investigation and likely a new arrest, even if there was a ruling to release him in the matter of Natalee Holloway's disappearance. But personally I'm going to wait and see if this witness has a little more credibility than some of the others Jossy Mansur has produced to date. And his claim of there being two unidentified and unidentifiable other girls potential charges against Joran Va der Sloot - girls who can not come forward and he cannot name ... amounts to little more than character assassination until they are produced, or disclosed.

Fox, MSNBC, or whomever is not really doing much for the tradition of good journalism by continuing with some of that charade. Also undisclosed, but apparently true in part - is that the Dutch Government did name two Mansur's as linked to gun and drug smugglers, as well as money laundering activities in a leaked, Top-Secret report - for which Mansur filed a Human Rights complaint.

2.2 Under a Royal Decree of 22 October 1994 the Interim Head of Aruban Security Service, A. Koerten, was instructed to carry out an investigation into the security and integrity of Aruba. A report on this investigation was produced on 20 April 1995, entitled Security and Integrity of Aruba: Context and Perspective.

2.3 The report was issued as top secret and was sent to a limited number of state officials and institutions, named in the report.

2.4 The report draws a picture of security in Aruba and mentions that foreign services fighting crime in the region are (sic)Aalmost unanimous in their opinion that the predominant image of the Aruban business community is one of joint services towards (laundering specialists of) regional drug cartels. The report mentions the authors by name and portrays them as criminals who were associated with criminal organizations involved in drugs trafficking, gun trafficking and laundering money obtained from criminal activities.

2.5 Despite the fact that the report was classified as top secret it was leaked to the press and its contents became public. It is not clear who leaked the report. An investigation of the leak was carried out by the Dutch Internal Security Service in which it was supposedly found that the leaked photocopy was not made from a copy in the hands of the Minister of Dutch-Antillean and Aruban Affairs or another Dutch official. The investigation report did not state of which copy the photocopy was made.

Lastly, it is believed that Paulus Van der Sloot participated on a panel which agreed to extradite two relatives of the Mansurs to the US under serious charges some years back. One cannot be fair and balanced without at least mentioning that your primary source of information in this case may well have an agenda against, not only the Dutch in a political sense, but also Paulus Van der Sloot directly.

Nothing in this case seems simple, or beyond a shadow of a doubt - excepting clear statements from everyone that the first few days, always so important to this type of investigation, were significantly flawed, at best.

[Mama25]

Um,yeah. I do. Especially if there were clues that the crimes were related.

Ever hear of the BTK killer? Wichita definitely paid attention there...but hey...why face facts when you can spin, eh, TOPSY?

(fine... fine... i'll saddle up my horse and go draw that line...)

[truthluva]

Hey Theo and Everyone,

I PM'd Red at SM last night and asked about providing links here so that all of us could see the pictures of the benefit that Tom attended last night. Understandably, he has requested that we provide a link...and not post the actual pictures themselves. After all, the pictures are from their representative. The pictures are being posted on the Front Page and that does not require a registration in order to view. As more pictures are posted I think we should honor his request and only post a link.

Does anyone have a problem with that?

[theophilusscribe]

Thanks, truthluva. Didn't realize they did not want them posted elsewhere. Will only post links to the pictures . . .

[Trust but Verify]

I never claimed to have a 'right'. You people need to get over yourselves. It was a suggestion, an opinion. Unless those are forbidden. Good grief!

I have a lot of empathy for this family. I tend to look at things more realistically. I can see this woman disintegrating before our eyes. She's going to drive herself into her own grave. There is going to be a time when she will have to move on. I think it's close.

A terrible crime was committed by someone. They were able to cover their tracks very, very well. Unless some physical evidence or unimpeachable eyewitness comes forward, there is no way to convict anyone of the crime. That's just the cold, hard fact. If some can't come to grips with it, then so be it.

[truthluva]

Thanks!

[theophilusscribe]

[truthluva]

"I tend to look at things more realistically."

This is your opinion and, yes, opinions can be stated. Others can also refute. I must say, in my opinion, that being realistic is as fluid as this case. What seems realistic to you may be different to someone else. Realistically, I would want to be able to do for my child the same as Beth is doing for her child. I consider that a realistic stance. You may think that makes me unrealistic, but I really would not care if you did. If it comes down to being concerned about someone else's impression of my actions or getting answers about my child...well I think you know which one would be more important to me. If it's not for you, that's fine...for you.

You have stated your opinion here many times and many time others have stated theirs.

[theophilusscribe]

worldJOURNIER Recaps: http://members.aol.com/worldJOURNIER/NATALEE/NATALEEtimeline.html
_________________

8-24-05
On 8-24 ART WOOD told “Court TV” that he spoke with the attorney of the 16 year old ARUBAN girl who claims to have been date-rape-drugged and date-raped by Main Suspect J. SLOOT and her attorney said she is going to file a criminal complaint with the ARUBA police. “Court TV” reported the rape allegedly occurred circa 5-8, only 3 weeks before NATALEE disappeared. WOOD said she has been afraid because she never told her parents about the rape, but she did tell her attorney. The girl reported the rape to the “Child Advocates of Aruba” organization. At this point she does not want to speak to any AMERICANS or the media, and her attorney will work to keep her name unknown after the criminal complaint is filed.

On 8-24 WOOD told “Court TV” that he has seen 2 of Main Suspect J. SLOOT’s declarations that were each different in 5-29/30 events content, and each was signed by 4 witnesses.

On 8-24 WOOD told “Court TV” that he has not been able to confirm if STRAATEN is Main Suspect J. SLOOT’s Godfather, or not.

On 8-24 “FoxNews” reported that Current Suspect STEVE CROES is now working at “Carlos ’n Charlies.”

On 8-24 GRETA said it is her belief (having been in the KALPOE’s home) that Current Suspect D. KALPOE had the only computer in his room that the family had.

On 8-24 “MSNBC” received approval from the warden of the ARUBA K.I.A. prison to film the prison and interview the warden. The “MSNBC” crew, which included reporter MICHELLE KOSINSKI, interviewed the warden, FREDDY MADURO, then MADURO asked them if they would like to see the prison. At one point MADURO took them to the recently constructed juvenile section of the prison. After a moment, the “MSNBC” crew noticed Main Suspect J. SLOOT sitting in his jail cell with 2 cellmates. KOSINSKI said when they first saw Main Suspect J. SLOOT he was sitting in a chair in his boxer shorts with his feet propped up reading a paperback book. The “MSNBC” crew started filming Main Suspect J. SLOOT, and concurrently asked him a few simple questions, to which he responded in a friendly, curt manner. KOSINSKI reported that neither Main Suspect J. SLOOT nor the warden ever asked them to stop filming Main Suspect J. SLOOT. KOSINSKI reported that they filmed not even 2 minutes of Main Suspect J. SLOOT. Somehow after “MSNBC” filming Main Suspect J. SLOOT, Current Suspect P. SLOOT found out and quickly contacted the defense lawyers, who contacted a DUTCH judge in ARUBA, who called an immediate court hearing that night with all parties present (“MSNBC,” apparently, was able to get some attorneys to ARUBA to represent “MSNBC“). After the hearing the DUTCH judge ordered “MSNBC” not to ever broadcast the footage from a tour of an Aruban jail that shows Main Suspect J. SLOOT. The DUTCH judge further imposed that if “MSNBC” does show the specified film footage, it would be fined the equivalent of US$ 600,000.00 every time “MSNBC” shows the specified footage. In a statement, “NBC News” said it would not broadcast the footage though its news crew had permission from the warden to film inside the jail. “While we respect the court’s decision of this evening, we are considering our next course of legal action,” the network said. (MSNBC.com is a joint venture between NBC Universal and Microsoft.) NBC first showed a portion of the video from its tour of the jail on the “MSNBC” program “Rita Cosby: Live and Direct,” and well as the "Today" show on 8-25 but did not include the images of Main Suspect J. SLOOT.

On 8-24 “MSNBC’s” MICHELLE KOSINSKI reported that right after the 16 year old girl was date-rape-drugged then raped by Main Suspect J. SLOOT, she did go to the ARUBA police and reported it, but, apparently the ARUBA police did not investigate her report further.

On 8-24 HELEN LEJUEZ said she has spoken with (but is not representing) the 16 year old girl who will be filing a complaint with the ARUBA police against Main Suspect J. SLOOT of him date-rape-drugging then raping the girl.

After being asked on 8-24 about her reaction hearing about the 16 year old girl reporting shortly after 5-8 to the ARUBA police that Main Suspect J. SLOOT had date-rape-drugged then raped her but the ARUBA police did not follow up her claims, LINDA ALLISON was reminded of an unnamed ARUBAN woman/wife she has met who had told her that the woman and her husband were having a marital domestic dispute that the husband escalated into physical abuse of the woman/wife, so the woman called the ARUBA police. The woman/wife told ALLISON that shortly after the police arrived, and with the ARUBA policeman standing right there, the husband became enraged and threw his wife to the ground right in front of the ARUBA policeman. When the woman/wife looked at then asked the ARUBA policeman for help, the woman/wife claims that the ARUBA policeman told her, “I can’t. This is a dispute between you and your husband.”

On 8-24 “CNN” reported that Mr. JOE MAMMANA’s total dollar contributions pledged to the reward money for NATALEE is now $250,000.00. (up from $150,000.00) MAMMANA said that he speaks to BETH almost daily, and he has committed to her that he will help her financially, and “if it takes forever, we will bring NATALEE home.”

On 8-24 MADURO said of Main Suspect J. SLOOT, “When he doesn’t get his way, he gets very angry” and even stepped towards his mother in anger before he was stopped.

On 8-24 Main Suspect J. SLOOT was not interrogated by the DUTCH interrogators specialists

8-25-05
On 8-25 the “AP” reported an Aruba group is seeking divers to continue the search for NATALEE. The “Aruba Search and Rescue Foundation” has been helping search for NATALEE since she vanished 5-30. Co-founder EDUARDO MANSUR said the group wants to lead the divers in exploring waters off Aruba's west coast, where NATALEE was staying. MANSUR said that although the waters have been searched before, the group wants to try again with 12 to 20 divers and the help of a machine invented by JOE WALKER who claims it can detect human bones and teeth under water. "We have been working very hard on the case from the beginning," Mansur said. "We are following all leads." Mansur said he and Walker are recruiting local divers. He said they will start when enough divers volunteer.

On 8-25 MADURO was suspended for 6 weeks by ARUBA Minister of Justice, RUDY CROES, pending a review of events of 8-24. He explained that he just wanted to help the “MSNBC” crew in their video piece about the prison and especially showing them the recent new construction areas of the prison, and that there was no pre-planned intent to film Main Suspect J. SLOOT. MAURO also apologized on “MSNBC” to Current Suspect P. SLOOT, MADURO’s “boss” RUDY CROES, and MADURO’s co-workers.

On 8-25 Main Suspect J. SLOOT issued a statement about the 8-24 prison “MSNBC” film incident saying that he saw the camera crew’s taping equipment. In his statement he did not say that he objected to being filmed.

On 8-25 WOOD reported he talked with the ARUBA police about the pants belt found near the “California” lighthouse by GOLBA. WOOD was told by ROY TROMP that the ARUBA police determined--on their own--that the belt was “too old” to have been Main Suspect J. SLOOT’s, and that is the reason the ARUBA police have never sent the belt to HOLLAND for forensic testing.

On 8-25 Main Suspect J. SLOOT was not interrogated by the DUTCH interrogators specialists

[theophilusscribe]

Friday, August 26, 2005
http://joranvandersloot.blogspot.com/

"They can`t get the divers ready. But boy, they sure can have a hearing in the middle of the night....." —Diane Dimond, Court TV

[Trust but Verify]

I am adult enough to relaize everyone is entitled to their opinion, and if we are all reasonable, others may disagree but still respect the other opinions. Some things are just fact. Nothing, but nothing has changed since the start of this whole affair. We are no closer to knowing what happened, let alone holding accountable those who caused the events.

Beth Holloway has done an incredible job in trying to locate her daughter and seeking justice for her. Without any evidence, there is nothing more that can be done. I admire her tenacity, but I fear for her health. She knows her daughter is gone forever. She knows it.

[theophilusscribe]

Wednesday, August 24, 2005
http://joranvandersloot.blogspot.com/

Aruba judge to network: Don't show suspect
An Aruban judge ordered NBC News not to broadcast footage from a tour of an Aruban jail that shows Natalee Holloway disappearance suspect Joran van der Sloot. The judge issued the order at the request of van der Sloot's attorney following a hearing Wednesday night.

NBC Video Inside Aruban Jail
During the tour, reporter Michelle Kosinski came face to face with van der Sloot, and even talked to him on camera for several minutes. However, his attorneys took NBC to court in Aruba, where a judge ruled against NBC showing the pictures of the suspect, citing his right to privacy.

Lawyers: Aruban judge quashes taped interview with suspect
"We argued before the judge that what NBC did was totally unacceptable, totally unethical, totally unprofessional, and that that has nothing to do with journalism, but that the only aim of what NBC has done was to try to tarnish and further prejudice the good name of our client," lawyer Antony Carlo told reporters.

[truthluva]

Okay I've read your posts...you say nothing that we don't already know regarding the evidence. If you come up with any new information I would love to hear it.

Those who simply give up and chose the 'realisitic' route rarely accomplish much. Giving up ensures that no evidence will ever surface. (Hmmm ... wonder who's hoping for that?)

[truthluva]

I'm seeing posts at SM saying the the Kalpoe brothers have been re-arrested. Have you seen anything on this yet?

[No Surrender No Retreat]

Hey Malichi,
I have already fixed bayonet's for this one. It will bring back memories of, "Vlad the impaler."

Break out the piano wire, it's time for Stealth,
NSNR-OSD

[theophilusscribe]

No I haven't . . . Really?!? Good!!

[truthluva]

Don't know yet if it's true. Checking....

[theophilusscribe]

CONFIRMED PER FOXNEWS!! ALSO FREDDIE ARRESTED!!!