Posted on 08/17/2005 10:57:12 PM PDT by SWO
The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (BATFE), who seem to go out of their way to alienate gun owners with their heavy-handedness, behaved in a shameful manner this last weekend at the Showmasters' gun show in Richmond.
I had reports from members of police going to their houses while the member was waiting for their approval to purchase a gun at the show! The police asked the spouse and other family members questions about the purchases and filled in a survey! "Did you know your husband was going to a gun show today?" "Did you know your husband was going to buy a gun today?" and many other such questions.
If no one was home at the gun purchaser's house, the police went to the neighbors! "Did you know that your neighbor was buying a gun today? How do you feel about him doing so?"
One member, who was carrying a personal gun to sell, was approached by BATFE and taken to a car while they checked him out. The officer said in front of Showmasters' management, "Did you know you need a business license to sell a gun at this show? I have seen you at a lot of shows - are you in the business of selling guns? I think you are." That's called a fishing expedition and intimidation. In the end they let the VCDL member go because their fish hooks came up empty.
They had over 17 BATFE agents at that show. Richmond and Henrico had a large number of officers running to the homes of anyone purchasing a handgun to ask questions.
I guess Mayor Wilder is flush with cash all of a sudden. Too bad he didn't use that money to put all those cops into the rougher neighborhoods of Richmond, instead of harassing the decent citizens who buy guns at a gun show.
And, if you are sitting down, the main BATFE agent at the show told Showmasters' management that Richmond was going to be the model for this kind of behavior across the nation!!!
BUT, THERE IS GOOD NEWS.
Steve Elliott, who heads up C&E Gun Shows and is affiliated with Showmasters, along with Annette Gelles, who heads up Showmasters, went to Washington with some lawyers to get this straightened out on Monday. (BTW, Steve told me that he has spent in excess of $10,000 this year on legal fees fighting this kind of abuse.)
Steve and Annette were told by the BATFE in DC that BATFE would no longer be sending officers to people's houses who were purchasing a firearm and that what happened in Richmond should not have happened.
We will be watching carefully to see if BATFE keeps its word or not. Report any such abuse immediately to VCDL, along with the officer's name, badge number, and department.
*************************************************************************** VA-ALERT is a project of the Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc. (VCDL). VCDL is an all-volunteer, non-partisan grassroots organization dedicated to defending the human rights of all Virginians. The membership considers the Right to Keep and Bear Arms to be an essential human right.
VCDL web page: http://www.vcdl.org
They could have arrested David Koresh on his bicycle when he came to town.
re: John Dingell (D-MI) & "jackbooted thugs"
Thanks for the correction. It's been a few years since all of that happened, and my memory isn't quite what it used to be. It seems Bush Sr. resigned his life membership in the NRA over the comment repeated by LaPierre. I also remember LaPierre getting grilled on one of the Sunday Morning shows over it as well. Tht'a probably why he came to mind. The Dingell part just faded from memory.
Sorry CT, you are 180 degrees wrong. The United States will not survive another two decades without Term Limits. Republicans are in charge of the government; the problem is that too many Republicans have become part of the problem.
Both the current system and the spoils system are wrong. By turning over enough elected officials, we can eliminate a very large number of government's bureaucratic jobs all together. Beginning some time after Labor Day, a series of articles are going to be posted to FreeRepublic that will detail exactly how We the people can take our country back by restoring the Constitution. No time for debate or explanation now. You will recognize the series when you see it. Stay tuned. Good things are coming to FreeRepublic and FreeRepublic can play an instrumental role in ensuring that good things are coming to America.
If the ATF and the ICE swapped agents and law enforcement philosophies, every illegal alien in America would be arrested, deported or shot in a month.
And gun owners could fire unlicensed full-auto machine guns in their back yards anytime with no hassles.
Well in general if someone comes and knocks on my door I answer it and ask what they want. If someone surrounds my house and sends men with masks through second bedroom windows with Uzi's in their hands I'm a lot more likely to shoot first.
Used to be real bravery was a part of being a law enforcement officer. This might include being the person selected to "ring the doorbell" in an arrest case. We won't know what might have happened had they done that, but we do know that law enforcement had many other opportunities to arrest Koresh outside the compound in the weeks running up to the raid. He frequently jogged on local roads.
How do you reconcile the overwhelming force used to effect an individual arrest with the large number of women and chlidren in compound.
So maybe the answer wasn't the BATF knocking, per say, but rather using their brains to effect an arrest without killing everyone in the vicinity. They abjectly failed in that goal, brought derision and disgrace on the agency and the Federal Government. Now THAT'S ASSININE !!
You may be a little young and immature, IMO, to make intelligent posts on FR. Do you know that you are the ONLY poster who calls the BATFE agents "BATFAGS"?
I like those guys on the forum. They've got the right attitude about the whole thing. ;-)
I've been using "BATFags", "Feebies", and "Friendly Baby Incinerators" for almost a decade now. I guess sh*t for brains up above there needs to lurk for a few more years before making any other stupid comments.
Jack booted fascists.
The investigation determined (something like this) that the raid team leader and others tried to breach the front door, only got it open a few inches because of barricades, etc, and during that moment, Koresh and others opened up on them. Fire was returned as the agents retreated. I think two agents were killed, one at the front door, and the other on the roof. The report surmised that the shooting at the front door set the roof events in motion.
Kind of odd, isn't it, that surviving photos and the testimony of the surviving outside witnesses all indicate that the bullet holes on the metal door all went INWARD, not OUTWARD?
Of course, we'll never be sure, because somewhere between Waco and Washington, the feds "lost" the front door. Yes, they "lost it." A steel door, a key piece of evidence, photographed being taken from the ashes. The feds "lost" it.
You make me laugh. You're pathetic.
So if you don't like seeing your precious JBTs being called BATFAGs, tough.
You better keep a close eye on your dog now! And for goodness sakes hide the kittens.
Must have been that newfangled Automatic Doorknocker that all the SWAT teams got now. I think some people are born to be sheep, its kinda a masochistic thing.
JBT Proud of his work 
It's an insult to FAGS everywhere. I have more respect for the most flaming of homos (and that ain't much) than I do for a mid-level BATF bureaucrat trying to prove to the world that he is more of a man than the FBI.
BATFags is a very common term here on FR and rightfully so.
What is odd is how so few people saw the video of the initial "raid" before it was edited. I saw it @ 6:00 am. I clearly saw Koresh come out of the door way and say "there are women and children in here".
The dogs could be heard in the back ground being shot and then all hell broke loose. FROM THE CATTLE CARS the first shots were fired!
If anyone has that unedited video it should be posted on threads like this.
FReegards and I loved the book :)
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