Posted on 08/17/2005 10:57:12 PM PDT by SWO
The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (BATFE), who seem to go out of their way to alienate gun owners with their heavy-handedness, behaved in a shameful manner this last weekend at the Showmasters' gun show in Richmond.
I had reports from members of police going to their houses while the member was waiting for their approval to purchase a gun at the show! The police asked the spouse and other family members questions about the purchases and filled in a survey! "Did you know your husband was going to a gun show today?" "Did you know your husband was going to buy a gun today?" and many other such questions.
If no one was home at the gun purchaser's house, the police went to the neighbors! "Did you know that your neighbor was buying a gun today? How do you feel about him doing so?"
One member, who was carrying a personal gun to sell, was approached by BATFE and taken to a car while they checked him out. The officer said in front of Showmasters' management, "Did you know you need a business license to sell a gun at this show? I have seen you at a lot of shows - are you in the business of selling guns? I think you are." That's called a fishing expedition and intimidation. In the end they let the VCDL member go because their fish hooks came up empty.
They had over 17 BATFE agents at that show. Richmond and Henrico had a large number of officers running to the homes of anyone purchasing a handgun to ask questions.
I guess Mayor Wilder is flush with cash all of a sudden. Too bad he didn't use that money to put all those cops into the rougher neighborhoods of Richmond, instead of harassing the decent citizens who buy guns at a gun show.
And, if you are sitting down, the main BATFE agent at the show told Showmasters' management that Richmond was going to be the model for this kind of behavior across the nation!!!
BUT, THERE IS GOOD NEWS.
Steve Elliott, who heads up C&E Gun Shows and is affiliated with Showmasters, along with Annette Gelles, who heads up Showmasters, went to Washington with some lawyers to get this straightened out on Monday. (BTW, Steve told me that he has spent in excess of $10,000 this year on legal fees fighting this kind of abuse.)
Steve and Annette were told by the BATFE in DC that BATFE would no longer be sending officers to people's houses who were purchasing a firearm and that what happened in Richmond should not have happened.
We will be watching carefully to see if BATFE keeps its word or not. Report any such abuse immediately to VCDL, along with the officer's name, badge number, and department.
*************************************************************************** VA-ALERT is a project of the Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc. (VCDL). VCDL is an all-volunteer, non-partisan grassroots organization dedicated to defending the human rights of all Virginians. The membership considers the Right to Keep and Bear Arms to be an essential human right.
VCDL web page: http://www.vcdl.org
I wonder if the "E" was added to their name when they transferred to homeland security?
For Free Republic archives on Waco, go to top of page to click "search." Then under the search title block, click the arrow by "quick" to show "archive." Put "Waco" in the title search block for a lot of discussion of Waco.
Actually, they lied to obtain the copters from the military. They claimed that Koresh was running a drug factory in there, and they didn't even have an anonymous source to back that up. Koresh was a scumbag and probably deserved his death, but those other people who were in his cult deserved to have a chance to break free of his bizarre, evil charisma -- a chance at life.
The case is very, very confusing because everyone involved has self-interests that oppose telling the truth, and so a lot of truth doesn't get told, and a lot that does get told is false. Further, there were jurisdictional fault lines (the original, bungled raid was by ATF; the incompetent, highly lethal raid was by the FBI's vaunted, but pitiful, Hostage Rescue Team.
The original ATF leaders who planned that abortion of a raid destroyed their plans after it went bad, and they were mildly disciplined for it (fired), but then reinstated by the Clinton administration.
The ATF had some training from the 3rd Special Forces Group, and also had a review of their plans by three individuals from a classified element. It's worth noting that military "hostage rescue" policy is that killing the terrorists is paramount, and rescuing the hostages secondary. Even the military lied at first about its participation in the planning and training for the raid (no military personnel except for helicopter crews took part in the raid).
The FBI mostly didn't want military assistance, because they know everything (you don't even need to ask them -- they will tell you pretty quickly).
I grew up believing that the FBI was awesome, thanks to TV shows and books I read. But the FBI of my childhood is gone, instead there are self-serving, expedient types I don't recognize from the Hoover era (maybe they need another drag queen Director or something).
Think of what the Bureau's been in the news for lately. The Boston Field Office sold out to the Mafia. The head of counterintelligence (Robert Hanssen) was working for the Russians for 20 years. His deputy (James J. Smith) for the Chinese for the same period, as was one of Smith's guys -- they were both, in fact, sleeping with the same Chinese Mata Hari.
All of us who wondered how the FBI managed to bollix up the Wen Ho Lee case so completely, the guy the FBI put on the case was loyal to the Red CHinese -- and we're still paying this admitted traitor his pension.
The FBI being the FBI, Hanssen went to jail because the CIA caught him, not the FBI; but the two guys working for the Chinese retired with their full pensions and a tap on the wrist. The Bureau protects its own, even its own traitors, if it can.
The "sniper" who took a sub-100m shot that struck a woman in the head at Ruby Ridge, and then claimed that she looked like a 6-foot tall, 200-lb man, was subsequently -- assigned as an instructor at HRT. That's really brilliant.
And the Boston field office, most of the dirty agents lawyered up and we're still paying their pensions too, even though they dutifully reported every informant to the Mafia and their Irish enforcers, and got the guy whacked, for twenty plus years. One -- Zip Connolly -- did go up the river but it wasn't because anyone at the FBI was interested in cleaning house.
d.o.l.
Criminal Number 18F
BTW, I don't know if you were just being flippant but that old story about J. Edgar Hoover being a drag queen has been totally debunked.
It was a KGB story plant trying to undermine the FBI. I have actually heard some of the KGB people who were involved tell how they did it.
FWIW, of the three BATF agents killed in the initial assault in Waco, all were former Clinton bodyguards during the primary elections. Bubba got them their new jobs as rewards. There used to be a memorial speach posted at the Treasury Dept that Bubba gave in their memory.
The Davidians absolutely had no .50 cal machine guns, and I challenge you to point me to any official link that says otherwise.
There was a Barret or Barret type .50, most certainly not a machine gun. (BTW, a very legal .50 to own)
"I warned people about Gonzales before he was appointed."
And no one listened because Bush appointed him. He's a golden boy, unfortunately he's just another big government butt-boy.
Hold on a minute. The guy was waiting at the gun show to buy a gun and the police swooped to his house to talk to his neighbors? This smells like BS.
ATF recently "raided" an 85-yr old gun dealer in this area for letting his FFL expire, and confiscated his entire inventory. The thugs must be putting on a show to get more money appropriated.
By the time of these hearings the Republicans were in charge. Representative McCollum was head of that committee or subcommittee. They were going to have experts from the NRA go over the guns to see if they really were converted. The Dems created a real fuss about that and the Republicans, as they always do, rolled over and played dead. They rescinded their offer to let the NRA experts check them.
I am basically certain in my own mind that they were all legal and the information leading to the raid was a complete fabrication.
If there were local police involved in this effort, as reported, the mayor deserves some heat as well.
That has been ATF policy for a long time. It is so much safer and easier to go after 85 year olds for paperwork violations than gangsters and gang bangers. Those guys might shoot back. That is why they ran with their tails between their legs at Waco. They weren't expecting those Christians to fight back.
Getting a little tough to defend the ATF, isn't it? .50 caliber machine gun?? Sorry Randi, no illegal weapons were found in the ashes, so stop lying. Using tanks and flamethrowers against women and childres is hard to defend, but getting snotty with posters you disagree with doesn't help, nor does your pseudo-intellectual, smarter-than-you attitude.
My understanding is that the Davidians had some of those spring-loaded trigger guard attachments that would burst 3 or 4 rounds when twanged. At the time their legality was uncertain and they were being sold mail order and at gun shows.
I posted before seeing your apology/retraction. Glad to see that you are man enough to admit your mistake.
Gee. I thought the BD's had 10 year olds operating 88s, 3 Tiger tanks in the garage ready to go and a 12 year old with a Panzerschrek on the roof.
L
So, you are LE/ former LE ?
bubp
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