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To: Jeff Head

It just seems odd to me that a regime which is basing a new blue water fleet on the submarine, and concentrating on developing and amassing anti-carrier weapons, would bother with an expensive-and in their view, eventually worthless-weapons system like an aircraft carrier.


3 posted on 08/14/2005 6:03:40 PM PDT by warchild9
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To: warchild9

"It just seems odd to me that a regime which is basing a new blue water fleet on the submarine, and concentrating on developing and amassing anti-carrier weapons, would bother with an expensive-and in their view, eventually worthless-weapons system like an aircraft carrier."

A status symbol as well as a capability perhaps? It will really scare me when China has a competent submarine fleet. Until then, they really are limited in projecting their power.


9 posted on 08/14/2005 6:09:36 PM PDT by iThinkBig
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To: warchild9
It is clear that within China that the carrier is not viewed as worthless at all by many of the planners.

The PLA leaders want to look at it that way, but those interested in projecting power beyond the 1st Island chain do not feel that way at all and have clearly influenced the money strings. The Vayrag is just the latest in at least 3 or 4 other older carrier purchases that the Chinese have made. They are studying the issue and the main arguement right now is whether to build their own first one...or to make the fist something like the Vayrag from which they can learn.

In addition, for the last couple of years at least, at internal airfields, they have been practicing SU-27 and SU-30 aircraft take-offs from land based bow jumps...just like on the Vayrag.

My bet is that they will end up doing both.

12 posted on 08/14/2005 6:11:38 PM PDT by Jeff Head (www.dragonsfuryseries.com)
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To: warchild9

Maybe, maybe not. The Varyag is a Kuznetsov-class carrier.

http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=bgteb70b6tnjq?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Soviet+aircraft+carrier+Kuznetsov&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01a&linktext=%3CI%3EKuznetsov%3C%2FI%3E-class

***
Intended missions

While designated an aircraft carrier, Kuznetsov's design implies a mission different from that of either the United States Navy's carriers or those of the Royal Navy's. The Russian ship is termed by her builders to be a tyazholiy avionosnyy kreyser - a "heavy aviation cruiser" - intended to support and defend strategic missile-carrying submarines, surface ships, and maritime missile-carrying aircraft of the Russian fleet. The aircraft of the Kuznetsov are essentially constrained to air superiority operations. The lack of catapults on the Kuznetsov precludes launching strike aircraft with heavy loads, which makes it essentially impossible for aircraft to attack land or naval targets. The carrier can carry helicopters for anti-submarine operations, however, and she also carries anti-shipping missiles.
***

The air wing of a Kuznetsov-class is 16 Yak-41M Freestyles, 12 Sukhoi SU-27K, and a whole bunch of choppers - including over 20 choppers. Basically, it is a cross between one of our Tarawa-class assault carriers and our old Forrestal-class fleet carriers, with some Nimitz-class features thrown in (though it's not nuclear powered). It's intended to support and defend a sub fleet, which is what the Chinese are building. It has a LOT more defensive systems than our Nimitz class, especially after the latest Nimitz upgrades that removed the CIWS emplacements in favor of Sea Sparrow launchers. It doesn't need a task force to escort it.


35 posted on 08/14/2005 6:29:37 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: warchild9

Why do you think the Chinese consider aircraft carriers to be worthless???? Because they plan to attack ours???

They have a great deal of respect for aircraft carriers. That's why they take ours so seriously. They have centered the PLAN on a mission, not on submarines.


55 posted on 08/14/2005 6:42:39 PM PDT by SampleMan
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