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Is China building a carrier?
Jane's Defence ^ | 12 August 2005 | Andrew Koch

Posted on 08/14/2005 6:00:25 PM PDT by Jeff Head

Is China building a carrier?

By Yihong Chang JDW Correspondent &
Andrew Koch JDW Bureau Chief
Hong Kong & Washington, DC

Chinese shipyard workers have been repairing a badly damaged ex-Russian aircraft carrier and have repainted it with the country's military markings, raising the question once again of whether China is pursuing longer-term plans to field its first carrier.

In the latest developments, images show that workers at the Chinese Dalian Shipyard have repainted the ex-Russian Kuznetsov-class aircraft carrier Varyag with the markings and colour scheme of the People's Liberation Army (PLA) Navy (PLAN). Additional new photographs show that other work, the specifics of which could not be determined, appears to be continuing and that the condition of the vessel is being improved.

JDW believes that PLAN technicians have also conducted thorough studies of the basic structure of the Varyag during the past few years to obtain a comprehensive understanding of the carrier's structural design. Former PLAN commander General Liu Huaqing stated in his memoirs that China had purchased blueprints for the carrier - a fact that Russian sources confirmed to JDW. Moreover, Gen Huaqing added: "The competent departments of the defence industry employed Russian aircraft carrier designers to come to China and give lectures."

Still, China's ultimate intentions for the Varyag remain unclear. One possibility is that Beijing intends to eventually have it enter into some level of service. A military strategist from a Chinese military university has commented publicly that the Varyag "would be China's first aircraft carrier".


Yaryag undergoing work through 2004 in the Dalian Shipyards


Varyag after movement to another shipyard in 2005

(Excerpt) Read more at janes.com ...


TOPICS: Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: aircraftcarriers; armsbuildup; armsrace; chinathreat; chinesebuildup; chinesecarrier; chinesemilitary; dragonsfuryseries; freeperjeffhead; jeffhead; navy; planaircraftcarrier; planbuildup; plancarrier; redchinathreat; varyag; worldnavies; worldwariii; worldwidecarriers; wwiii
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To: Meldrim
Will they surpass our lead in illegitimate births per sailorette and the associated costs?

What do you expect with all the seamen (ba-dum BUM) on board?

121 posted on 08/14/2005 10:19:49 PM PDT by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: samadams2000
Yes, of the 9 not presently underway, some will be in a training cycle, some will be getting routine maintenance and replinishment, some will be on port calls, etc. One is in long-term overhaul and is not available. Most of the others could get to sea at varying speeds, depending on how severe the emergency was. Even with long term planning for an exercise, however, I think they were only able to get 8 to sea in a 30 day window. With the upcoming loss of the Kennedy, that is something that will probably not be repeated short of total war.

I agree that a few additional carriers would be good, but subs are where there is a real shortage developing. If you got desparate, you could always use a couple of the new Amphibs as light carriers (The would be as good as anything else afloat) but there is no substitute for an attack sub.

122 posted on 08/14/2005 10:31:13 PM PDT by PAR35
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To: Jeff Head

If nothing else the Varyag with be used for training purposes. I don't think the Chinese would be stupid enough to deploy it. It maybe the next step in understanding of carrier operations since they are new to the game. How many of their pilots have ever landed on a carrier at sea? Do they have know carrier safety procedures, such fire suppression? I can imagine their first few attempts at landing on carrier at sea will be very interesting. I am suggesting it will be a long time before you see sizable numbers of Chinese Carriers on the high seas.


123 posted on 08/15/2005 6:38:52 AM PDT by Kuehn12 (Kuehn12)
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To: Kuehn12

I believe it will be some time too. I also believe they will attempt to ramp that up as fast as they can and that they will lose quite a few people doing so. We certainly have lost some of our own...and continue to do so. Flight ops are inherantly dangerous, even with experience.


124 posted on 08/15/2005 6:44:22 AM PDT by Jeff Head (www.dragonsfuryseries.com)
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To: Jeff Head

I am sure they are trying to build a carrier. So what? They are going to deploy one half-@$$ed carrier against the entire USN? How long is it going to take 'em to work up an air group? IF the Chinks want to sink massive amounts of money into something we're already experts at killing, that's their perogative.
There are a lot of scary things going on in the PRC, but PLAN naval aviation is probably the least of our problems. I'd be be more worried about the large number of advanced diesel / electric subs they are building or buying, esp. with the decay of our ASW assets.


125 posted on 08/15/2005 6:50:37 AM PDT by Little Ray (I'm a reactionary, hirsute, gun-owning, knuckle dragging, Christian Neanderthal and proud of it!)
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To: Little Ray
I am worried about it all. I am not saying at all that their building a carrier is the most significant problem in the least. Check out the web site I have created comparing their efforts and what they are building to our own and this is clear.

I am more concerned about their subs and new DDG's than the carrier. But going forward with a carrier, IMHO, it representative of long term ambitions, beyond even the issue with Taiwan, that are concerning. There are many folks here on FR and elsewhere interested in and watching that and so I posted this to that interest.

Thanks for your comments...I agree with them.

126 posted on 08/15/2005 7:21:37 AM PDT by Jeff Head (www.dragonsfuryseries.com)
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To: Doohickey; ProudVet77
I stand corrected. PV77 has reminded me of the TASM which is being reintroduced to the fleet. My bad on neglecting it.

With its longer range and heavier payload...it is the best sub-sonic ASM on the planet. Harpoon and its SLAM derivitives fall in line behind that IMHO.

127 posted on 08/15/2005 7:28:11 AM PDT by Jeff Head (www.dragonsfuryseries.com)
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To: Alamo-Girl

You are welcome AG! Thanks for the reply and BUMP.


128 posted on 08/15/2005 7:29:00 AM PDT by Jeff Head (www.dragonsfuryseries.com)
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To: Jeff Head

You are quite welcome! Here's another bump!


129 posted on 08/15/2005 10:30:33 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Jeff Head

I respectfully disagree about Harpoon. It's okay for soft targets, I guess. It's also a good weapon against surface submarines. Originally, it was designed to climb at the end of it's run and dive into the target to give it a chance to penetrate the targe but that made it way to easy to shoot down. I saw, with my own eyes, a Harpoon fired from USS Hayler (DD-997) fail to sink a 50ft tug.


130 posted on 08/15/2005 3:53:18 PM PDT by Doohickey (If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice...I will choose freewill.)
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bump


131 posted on 08/15/2005 4:00:33 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: warchild9

actually, its a two way street -- in time of war or threat of war we can always repudiate the debt, or forceably convert the instruments to "war bonds" with a mandatory holding period...


132 posted on 08/15/2005 4:02:47 PM PDT by chilepepper (The map is not the territory -- Alfred Korzybski)
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To: Doohickey

Thanks for the info on your experience. I just know that they did fine in February of 1986 against the Lybians, sinking or misison killing three vessels, a Soviet-supplied Nanuchka-class missile corvette, another Lybian partol boat and a French supplied FAC. All with harpoons fired either by A-6 Intruders or the USS Yorktown.


133 posted on 08/15/2005 4:19:00 PM PDT by Jeff Head (www.dragonsfuryseries.com)
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To: Doohickey

Check that...it was in March of 1986.


134 posted on 08/15/2005 4:22:15 PM PDT by Jeff Head (www.dragonsfuryseries.com)
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To: Jeff Head
the Varyag is just a hull though, it's empty, nothing inside, no power plant, no prop, no nothing to make it move. It's not going to go very far without an engine ... (or for that matter, not going to do much anything without an engine supplying the necessary power to various shipborn systems - like ... launching and recovering aircrafts?).

where is the PLAN gonna get that CV power plant and how they gonna drop the engine in without cutting a BIG hole on the side of the ship to fit it in? It'd be like trying to put egg yolk back inside a sealed egg shell.

Granted, nobody really buys the floating casino nonsense, not even the Chinese civilians themselves, who are always in Dailian snapping pics and posting on the Internet and speculating amongst themselves on what's going on with the Varyag. I can see PLAN studying the heck out of the Varyag to learn all they can about carrier construction ...

But turning it into a real operational CV? Can't see it, not even as a practice platform if you can't get the carrier out in the ocean with enough speed and wind to do real carrier ops and that would require ... uh, back to the no engine problem ...

135 posted on 08/15/2005 5:35:00 PM PDT by Republican Party Reptile
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To: Republican Party Reptile
The old engines were taken out...new ones could be put back in. Same with the props and all else.

If they want to refit it they could...and it would be cheaper than building one from scratch.

Now, whether they will do it or not remains to be seen...but they have been working on it for over a year and no one knows exactly what that work has entailed.

136 posted on 08/15/2005 5:50:29 PM PDT by Jeff Head (www.dragonsfuryseries.com)
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To: Jeff Head

Excellent examples of soft targets. There was some thought given to used Hellfire against targets like that (SH-60F has been backfitted with them), since they're smaller and less expensive...but they're so fast (950mph) that they punched straight through the target.


137 posted on 08/15/2005 7:11:49 PM PDT by Doohickey (If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice...I will choose freewill.)
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To: mylife

The Chinese are preparing for war, but their history shows that they are looking to expand their borders incrementally. They'll be more interested in gaining influence over the natural resources of Siberia in the next twenty years over fighting us, you can be certain.


138 posted on 08/15/2005 7:44:53 PM PDT by warchild9
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To: IndyMac

It's the threat that they'll not buy our debt. The last time they hinted they'd switch to Euro-denominated debt, the NYSE sunk 150 points in hours.

A debtor country really, really has to obey the golden rule: he who has the gold makes the rules.


139 posted on 08/15/2005 7:46:29 PM PDT by warchild9
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To: connectthedots

I say it again and again: we're not going to war with China. The suits are making too much money off their slave labor. However, we have treaties with FREE peoples in the region, and the communists will make a move on them, eventually.

Only time will tell if we live up to our treaty obligations; we didn't with South Vietnam.


140 posted on 08/15/2005 7:51:26 PM PDT by warchild9
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