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Tweaked hybrid gets 80 miles per gallon
LA Daily News ^
| 8/14/05
| Tim Molloy
Posted on 08/14/2005 2:26:28 PM PDT by BurbankKarl
CORTE MADERA, Calif. - Politicians and automakers say a car that can both reduce greenhouse gases and free America from its reliance on foreign oil is years or even decades away. Ron Gremban says such a car is parked in his garage.
It looks like a typical Toyota Prius hybrid, but in the trunk sits an 80 miles-per-gallon secret a stack of 18 brick-size batteries that boosts the car's high mileage with an extra electrical charge so it can burn even less fuel.
Gremban, an electrical engineer and committed environmentalist, spent several months and $3,000 tinkering with his car.
Like all hybrids, his Prius increases fuel efficiency by harnessing small amounts of electricity generated during braking and coasting. The extra batteries let him store extra power by plugging the car into a wall outlet at his home in this San Francisco suburb all for about a quarter.
He's part of a small but growing movement. "Plug-in" hybrids aren't yet cost-efficient, but some of the dozen known experimental models have gotten up to 250 mpg.
They have support not only from environmentalists but also from conservative foreign-policy hawks who insist Americans fuel terrorism through their gas guzzling.
And while the technology has existed for three decades, automakers are beginning to take notice, too.
So far, DaimlerChrysler AG is the only company that has committed to building its own plug-in hybrids, quietly pledging to make up to 40 vans for U.S. companies. But Toyota Motor Corp. officials who initially frowned on people altering their cars now say they may be able to learn from them.
"They're like the hot rodders of yesterday who did everything to soup up their cars. It was all about horsepower and bling-bling, lots of chrome and accessories," said Cindy Knight, a Toyota spokeswoman. "Maybe the hot rodders of tomorrow are the people who want to get in there and see what they can do about increasing fuel economy."
The extra batteries let Gremban drive for 20 miles with a 50-50 mix of gas and electricity. Even after the car runs out of power from the batteries and switches to the standard hybrid mode, it gets the typical Prius fuel efficiency of around 45 mpg. As long as Gremban doesn't drive too far in a day, he says, he gets 80 mpg.
"The value of plug-in hybrids is they can dramatically reduce gasoline usage for the first few miles every day," Gremban said. "The average for people's usage of a car is somewhere around 30 to 40 miles per day. During that kind of driving, the plug-in hybrid can make a dramatic difference."
Backers of plug-in hybrids acknowledge that the electricity to boost their cars generally comes from fossil fuels that create greenhouse gases, but they say that process still produces far less pollution than oil. They also note that electricity could be generated cleanly from solar power.
Gremban rigged his car to promote the nonprofit CalCars Initiative, a San Francisco Bay area-based volunteer effort that argues automakers could mass produce plug-in hybrids at a reasonable price.
But Toyota and other car companies say they are worried about the cost, convenience and safety of plug-in hybrids and note that consumers haven't embraced all-electric cars because of the inconvenience of recharging them like giant cell phones.
Automakers have spent millions of dollars telling motorists that hybrids don't need to be plugged in, and don't want to confuse the message.
Nonetheless, plug-in hybrids are starting to get the backing of prominent hawks like former CIA Director James Woolsey and Frank Gaffney, President Reagan's undersecretary of defense. They have joined Set America Free, a group that wants the government to spend $12 billion over four years on plug-in hybrids, alternative fuels and other measures to reduce foreign oil dependence.
Gaffney, who heads the Washington, D.C.-based Center for Security Policy, said Americans would embrace plug-ins if they understood arguments from him and others who say gasoline contributes to oil-rich Middle Eastern governments that support terrorism.
"The more we are consuming oil that either comes from places that are bent on our destruction or helping those who are ... the more we are enabling those who are trying to kill us," Gaffney said.
DaimlerChrysler spokesman Nick Cappa said plug-in hybrids are ideal for companies with fleets of vehicles that can be recharged at a central location at night. He declined to name the companies buying the vehicles and said he did not know the vehicles' mileage or cost, or when they would be available.
TOPICS: News/Current Events; US: California
KEYWORDS: hybrids
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To: doodad
I have a Cavelier, and it does highway speeds, that's about the best thing I can say for it.
41
posted on
08/14/2005 3:25:27 PM PDT
by
Melas
(The dumber the troll, the longer the thread)
To: PeteB570
Man, you must have been out the last two days. We drove this one all over the block. Some posters even got a bit testy.I was one of the testy ones, and I own a prius.
Moonbat territory, although I notice that the headline "mileage" has been reduced by 2/3 !
*snrk*
42
posted on
08/14/2005 3:27:06 PM PDT
by
Publius6961
(Liberal level playing field: If the Islamics win we are their slaves..if we win they are our equals.)
To: BurbankKarl
Americans wont drive a euro-looking clown car, just like we wont watch wussy euro soccer...it better look good, it better look american. Big, intimidating and slick.
Make a hybrid that doesnt look like a little toy and you have me and untold millions of others sold
43
posted on
08/14/2005 3:27:15 PM PDT
by
Tiger Smack
(www.tigersmack.com <------- for LSU & SEC sports/news/stuff)
To: BurbankKarl
Oh, I see the headline has lost 170 mpg since last night. LOL!
44
posted on
08/14/2005 3:27:55 PM PDT
by
Publius6961
(Liberal level playing field: If the Islamics win we are their slaves..if we win they are our equals.)
To: SampleMan
"He's not get the extra miles from the gasoline, he's getting them from the natural gas, coal, protons, etc. that is energizing his house. Most certainly at less efficiency."
The difference environmentally is that oil is dirtier, and the difference economically is that it's a heck of a lot cheaper. Why be cynical about this? WOuldn't you want to save money?
45
posted on
08/14/2005 3:29:15 PM PDT
by
BackInBlack
("The act of defending any of the cardinal virtues has today all the exhilaration of a vice.")
To: Tiger Smack
You see the problem is that the whole hybrid idea doesn't work at all at highway speeds, only in the city. At highway speeds you're just carrying extra weight.
It's very likely that, at least for most people, removing the motor, electronics, and battery would increase their overall fuel economy and knock about $5,000 off the price tag.
46
posted on
08/14/2005 3:32:29 PM PDT
by
John Jamieson
(Hybrids are a highway around CAFE, that's all they're good for.)
To: Melas
"Electricty has the possibilty of being generated by renewable resources."
Like?
Our cars use a huge amount of energy. The electrical generation system is already max'ed out in this country. If you transfer all the energy used by cars onto the electrical system it would at least double the demand for electricity (probably triple or more).
Renewable sources are not anywhere near meeting our demands now. We burn mostly natural gas and also burn large amounts of coal and oil now. Nuclear is not a "renewable" resource and is becoming a smaller and smaller source of electricity here currently.
47
posted on
08/14/2005 3:33:13 PM PDT
by
DB
(©)
To: doodad
I have to pass the same one every day. Useless. Kids car. No need to exaggerate.
I drove my previous commute car an average of 80mph, and I was passed routinely.
I average closer to 65 these days in my Prius and I still get passed.
Totally useless? I don't think so. I've commuting 30 months now, a total of 75 mile a day and it's done the job.
I'm usually alone in it, but have had up to 4 other passengers on occasion.
Totally useless? I don't think so!
48
posted on
08/14/2005 3:34:23 PM PDT
by
Publius6961
(Liberal level playing field: If the Islamics win we are their slaves..if we win they are our equals.)
To: pillbox_girl
The 80 miles per gallon figure here obviously doesn't include the fuel used to generate the electricity used to precharge the batteries
Bing! We have a winner!
By the logic of the headline, a golf cart gets infinity miles per gallon.
49
posted on
08/14/2005 3:34:52 PM PDT
by
Atlas Sneezed
(Your FRiendly FReeper Patent Attorney)
To: BackInBlack
oil is dirtier
Than coal? 52% of the US electric supply is coal. 75% in Texas.
50
posted on
08/14/2005 3:35:51 PM PDT
by
John Jamieson
(Hybrids are a highway around CAFE, that's all they're good for.)
To: BurbankKarl
Ummm. Call me crazy, but by increasing the overall weight of his vehicle (to carry the extra batteries) he's actually decreasing the mileage of his Prius.
He may be increasing the range, but the actual miles he gets per gallon of gasoline will be (slightly) lessened.
He could do the exact same thing (increase the range by carrying more stored energy) with a larger gas tank, but I doubt that would generate the accolades.
To: BackInBlack
Electricity isn't a "heck of a lot cheaper". It isn't cheaper at all.
52
posted on
08/14/2005 3:36:17 PM PDT
by
DB
(©)
To: John Jamieson
Zippo in California.
Natural gas here.
Which still isn't good... Economically speaking...
53
posted on
08/14/2005 3:38:22 PM PDT
by
DB
(©)
To: BurbankKarl
This would be great if it weren't for the fact that it plugs into the wall at night. The electricity that's charging those extra batteries has to come from somewhere. It's getting the standard Prius 50 mpg from the gasoline, and any extra mileage is coming from a power plant. Calling it 80 mpg is misleading.
54
posted on
08/14/2005 3:40:53 PM PDT
by
John Jorsett
(scam never sleeps)
To: Publius6961
Have you thought about the cost of replacing that battery?
THE HIDDEN COST OF HYBRID CARS (Austrian article, A$ = .77US$)
Hybrid cars are hitting our roads in ever increasing numbers as purchase prices come down and fuel prices go up. But the substantial hidden costs of owning a hybrid car could make it a financial time bomb.
By Glenn Butler
Owners of 'environmentally friendly' hybrid cars like the Toyota Prius and Honda Insight may be hit with a bill for up to $7000 when their car's battery dies less than eight years after purchase. The battery unit, which has a lifespan of 8-10 years -- shorter in hotter climates like Australia -- cannot be reconditioned. It must be thrown out and replaced with a new one, at considerable cost to the owner.
"A replacement battery on the Insight retails for $6840," said Honda spokesman Mark Higgins. Honda began selling the Insight hybrid in Japan car in 1997 and in Australia in 2000. It sold 44 Insights before withdrawing the futuristic-looking two-door coupe from the market earlier this year. Honda will re-enter the hybrid market with the Civic sedan in March, and aims to sell around 20 per month.
Toyota's Prius four-door sedan has fared considerably better since it launched in October 2001. Nearly 500 Australians had bought the hybrid sedan by September 2003, and Toyota hopes to move a lot more of the second generation model released in September. Toyota divisional general manager - marketing, Scott Grant believes there is a market for around 50 Prius a month. "This product is no longer a science experiment but a mainstream car," he said.
Toyota's manager of alternative fuels and specialized vehicles, Vic Johnstone, concedes the batteries, like the car itself, are built to last less than a decade. "The life of the car and the battery are supposed to be the same... around 8 to 10 years," he said. "We're not expecting to replace them [the batteries]. In fact we only hold one [replacement] battery in stock nationally."
A high percentage of hybrid vehicles brought to Australia so far have ended up in government hands. In fact Toyota believes government and business fleets will account for around 50 percent of all Prius purchases. Fleet managers turn over their vehicles after 2-3 years, meaning unsuspecting second hand buyers will be stuck with an unexpected and unwanted bill down the track.
The cost of batteries will come down as technology improves and more companies take up hybrid engines. Toyota announced a tie-up with Nissan in September, which will see the Renault-owned car company packaging Prius' Hybrid Synergy Drive system into future models.
Toyota lowered the price significantly on the Prius battery pack, from $4500 on the first model to around $3000 on the latest version, though unlike Honda, which offers an eight year warranty on the battery, Toyota only offers five years.
Despite the dramatic price drop, hybrid ownership remains a nod to better fuel economy, not financial savings. CarPoint's review of the Prius, published in October, compared the hybrid's fuel consumption to a similarly specified Toyota Corolla, and reached the conclusion it would take 15 years before the Prius' fuel economy paid off the extra purchase price.
Add battery replacement every eight years to this equation, and replacement parts costs as the vehicle exceeds its planned life of ten years and components wear out, and owners have no chance of ever seeing a dollar back.
To further add environmental insult to injury, a considerable cloud exists over just how recyclable NickelMetal Hydride batteries really are - some reports even suggest that those who buy green may be doing more environmental harm than good. Both Toyota and Honda were unable to tell CarPoint exactly how much of the battery could be recycled. Both have left the task of recycling in the hands of a third party recycler.
Internet site www.BatteryUniversity.com warns against the careless disposable of Ni-MH batteries, due to the toxicity of it main derivative, Nickel.
" The main derivative is nickel, which is considered semi-toxic. Nickel-metal-hydride also contains electrolyte that, in large amounts, is hazardous. If no disposal service is available in an area, individual nickel-metal-hydride batteries can be discarded with other household wastes. If ten or more batteries are accumulated, the user should consider disposing of these packs in a secure waste landfill."
Battery packs like that used by Toyota in the Prius, contain up to 28 groups of six Ni-MH battery cells. Correct disposal is therefore important.
"TMCA has a process in place where it comes back to the dealer," said Toyota's Vic Johnstone, "and we can recycle the battery. There's a supplier in Australia that can manage the recycling."
The global market for hybrid vehicles is booming: by 2010 Toyota expects to have sold two million worldwide, while Honda expects hybrid power trains to account for five percent of its worldwide sales in the foreseeable future. Both General Motors and Ford -- the world's two biggest car makers -- have yet to significantly flex their hybrid muscle in the market, and industry watcher JD Power expects hybrid sales to increase tenfold in the next five years.
Most agree that hybrid vehicles are a stepping stone to fuel cell technology, which requires a major infrastructure overhaul to be practical, but it's hard to see a single financial reason for consumers to buy petrol/electric hybrids.
55
posted on
08/14/2005 3:41:16 PM PDT
by
John Jamieson
(Hybrids are a highway around CAFE, that's all they're good for.)
To: DB
Unless you guys closed them:
1. ACE
2. Jackson Valley
3. Jasmin
4. Mount Poso
5. North American
6. Poso
7. Stockton
56
posted on
08/14/2005 3:44:28 PM PDT
by
John Jamieson
(Hybrids are a highway around CAFE, that's all they're good for.)
To: BurbankKarl
I have an idea........
Instead of everyone poo-pooing and pontificating, fluffing themselves up and trying to show everyone here how incredibly intelligent they are (just ask them).....
...get off your butts and invent something that works. After all, since there are so many "experts" here who can beat the dead horse of why it won't work, and why we're stupid for buying into someone actually trying something different - surely your incredible intellects (especially collectively) can come up with something better.
Unless it's all a bunch of hot air........?
To: BurbankKarl
18 brick sized batteries. What is in batteries? Heavy metals like lead, zinc, lithium, and acid. Where do heavy metals come from? Strip mining! Stupid freaking environmentalist always think they can get something for nothing. Hybrid technology is great but you don't get something for nothing, ever, period.
58
posted on
08/14/2005 3:51:51 PM PDT
by
Tailback
(USAF distinguished rifleman badge #300, German Schutzenschnur in Gold)
To: John Jamieson
With the breakthroughs in nano-technology batteries tri-bred cars do not seem that out of the question. I want a solar collector roof and hood, exhaust and radiator heat to power a light weight Stirling engine generators to re-charge these batteries at rest. Keep the plug-in adaptor for emergencies.
*******
Toshiba Corporation's breakthrough in lithium-ion batteries that pushes long recharge times into history. The company's new battery can recharge 80% of a battery's energy capacity in only 1 minute, and it is no gimmick.
http://www.geekzone.co.nz/content.asp?contentid=4297
59
posted on
08/14/2005 3:55:07 PM PDT
by
BushCountry
(They say the world has become too complex for simple answers. They are wrong.)
To: The Coopster
A lot of stuff works, all of it is less safe or costs more than the gas it saves. 65$ crude may change that balance, but only if stays that high for several more years.
60
posted on
08/14/2005 3:57:37 PM PDT
by
John Jamieson
(Hybrids are a highway around CAFE, that's all they're good for.)
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