Tweaked hybrid gets 80 miles per gallon

LA Daily News ^ | 8/14/05 | Tim Molloy

[Melas]

I have a Cavelier, and it does highway speeds, that's about the best thing I can say for it.

[Publius6961]

Man, you must have been out the last two days. We drove this one all over the block. Some posters even got a bit testy.

I was one of the testy ones, and I own a prius.

Moonbat territory, although I notice that the headline "mileage" has been reduced by 2/3 !

*snrk*

[Tiger Smack]

Americans wont drive a euro-looking clown car, just like we wont watch wussy euro soccer...it better look good, it better look american. Big, intimidating and slick.

Make a hybrid that doesnt look like a little toy and you have me and untold millions of others sold

[Publius6961]

Oh, I see the headline has lost 170 mpg since last night.

LOL!

[BackInBlack]

"He's not get the extra miles from the gasoline, he's getting them from the natural gas, coal, protons, etc. that is energizing his house. Most certainly at less efficiency."

The difference environmentally is that oil is dirtier, and the difference economically is that it's a heck of a lot cheaper. Why be cynical about this? WOuldn't you want to save money?

[John Jamieson]

You see the problem is that the whole hybrid idea doesn't work at all at highway speeds, only in the city. At highway speeds you're just carrying extra weight.

It's very likely that, at least for most people, removing the motor, electronics, and battery would increase their overall fuel economy and knock about $5,000 off the price tag.

[DB]

"Electricty has the possibilty of being generated by renewable resources."

Like?

Our cars use a huge amount of energy. The electrical generation system is already max'ed out in this country. If you transfer all the energy used by cars onto the electrical system it would at least double the demand for electricity (probably triple or more).

Renewable sources are not anywhere near meeting our demands now. We burn mostly natural gas and also burn large amounts of coal and oil now. Nuclear is not a "renewable" resource and is becoming a smaller and smaller source of electricity here currently.

[Publius6961]

I have to pass the same one every day. Useless. Kids car.

No need to exaggerate.
I drove my previous commute car an average of 80mph, and I was passed routinely.
I average closer to 65 these days in my Prius and I still get passed.

Totally useless? I don't think so. I've commuting 30 months now, a total of 75 mile a day and it's done the job.
I'm usually alone in it, but have had up to 4 other passengers on occasion.

Totally useless? I don't think so!

[Atlas Sneezed]

The 80 miles per gallon figure here obviously doesn't include the fuel used to generate the electricity used to precharge the batteries

---

Bing! We have a winner!

By the logic of the headline, a golf cart gets infinity miles per gallon.

[John Jamieson]

oil is dirtier

Than coal? 52% of the US electric supply is coal. 75% in Texas.

[babyface00]

Ummm. Call me crazy, but by increasing the overall weight of his vehicle (to carry the extra batteries) he's actually decreasing the mileage of his Prius.

He may be increasing the range, but the actual miles he gets per gallon of gasoline will be (slightly) lessened.

He could do the exact same thing (increase the range by carrying more stored energy) with a larger gas tank, but I doubt that would generate the accolades.

[DB]

Electricity isn't a "heck of a lot cheaper". It isn't cheaper at all.

[DB]

Zippo in California.

Natural gas here.

Which still isn't good... Economically speaking...

[John Jorsett]

This would be great if it weren't for the fact that it plugs into the wall at night. The electricity that's charging those extra batteries has to come from somewhere. It's getting the standard Prius 50 mpg from the gasoline, and any extra mileage is coming from a power plant. Calling it 80 mpg is misleading.

[John Jamieson]

Have you thought about the cost of replacing that battery?

THE HIDDEN COST OF HYBRID CARS (Austrian article, A$ = .77US$)

Hybrid cars are hitting our roads in ever increasing numbers as purchase prices come down and fuel prices go up. But the substantial hidden costs of owning a hybrid car could make it a financial time bomb.
By Glenn Butler

Owners of 'environmentally friendly' hybrid cars like the Toyota Prius and Honda Insight may be hit with a bill for up to $7000 when their car's battery dies less than eight years after purchase. The battery unit, which has a lifespan of 8-10 years -- shorter in hotter climates like Australia -- cannot be reconditioned. It must be thrown out and replaced with a new one, at considerable cost to the owner.

"A replacement battery on the Insight retails for $6840," said Honda spokesman Mark Higgins. Honda began selling the Insight hybrid in Japan car in 1997 and in Australia in 2000. It sold 44 Insights before withdrawing the futuristic-looking two-door coupe from the market earlier this year. Honda will re-enter the hybrid market with the Civic sedan in March, and aims to sell around 20 per month.

Toyota's Prius four-door sedan has fared considerably better since it launched in October 2001. Nearly 500 Australians had bought the hybrid sedan by September 2003, and Toyota hopes to move a lot more of the second generation model released in September. Toyota divisional general manager - marketing, Scott Grant believes there is a market for around 50 Prius a month. "This product is no longer a science experiment but a mainstream car," he said.

Toyota's manager of alternative fuels and specialized vehicles, Vic Johnstone, concedes the batteries, like the car itself, are built to last less than a decade. "The life of the car and the battery are supposed to be the same... around 8 to 10 years," he said. "We're not expecting to replace them [the batteries]. In fact we only hold one [replacement] battery in stock nationally."

A high percentage of hybrid vehicles brought to Australia so far have ended up in government hands. In fact Toyota believes government and business fleets will account for around 50 percent of all Prius purchases. Fleet managers turn over their vehicles after 2-3 years, meaning unsuspecting second hand buyers will be stuck with an unexpected and unwanted bill down the track.

The cost of batteries will come down as technology improves and more companies take up hybrid engines. Toyota announced a tie-up with Nissan in September, which will see the Renault-owned car company packaging Prius' Hybrid Synergy Drive system into future models.

Toyota lowered the price significantly on the Prius battery pack, from $4500 on the first model to around $3000 on the latest version, though unlike Honda, which offers an eight year warranty on the battery, Toyota only offers five years.

Despite the dramatic price drop, hybrid ownership remains a nod to better fuel economy, not financial savings. CarPoint's review of the Prius, published in October, compared the hybrid's fuel consumption to a similarly specified Toyota Corolla, and reached the conclusion it would take 15 years before the Prius' fuel economy paid off the extra purchase price.

Add battery replacement every eight years to this equation, and replacement parts costs as the vehicle exceeds its planned life of ten years and components wear out, and owners have no chance of ever seeing a dollar back.

To further add environmental insult to injury, a considerable cloud exists over just how recyclable NickelMetal Hydride batteries really are - some reports even suggest that those who buy green may be doing more environmental harm than good. Both Toyota and Honda were unable to tell CarPoint exactly how much of the battery could be recycled. Both have left the task of recycling in the hands of a third party recycler.

Internet site www.BatteryUniversity.com warns against the careless disposable of Ni-MH batteries, due to the toxicity of it main derivative, Nickel.

" The main derivative is nickel, which is considered semi-toxic. Nickel-metal-hydride also contains electrolyte that, in large amounts, is hazardous. If no disposal service is available in an area, individual nickel-metal-hydride batteries can be discarded with other household wastes. If ten or more batteries are accumulated, the user should consider disposing of these packs in a secure waste landfill."

Battery packs like that used by Toyota in the Prius, contain up to 28 groups of six Ni-MH battery cells. Correct disposal is therefore important.

"TMCA has a process in place where it comes back to the dealer," said Toyota's Vic Johnstone, "and we can recycle the battery. There's a supplier in Australia that can manage the recycling."

The global market for hybrid vehicles is booming: by 2010 Toyota expects to have sold two million worldwide, while Honda expects hybrid power trains to account for five percent of its worldwide sales in the foreseeable future. Both General Motors and Ford -- the world's two biggest car makers -- have yet to significantly flex their hybrid muscle in the market, and industry watcher JD Power expects hybrid sales to increase tenfold in the next five years.

Most agree that hybrid vehicles are a stepping stone to fuel cell technology, which requires a major infrastructure overhaul to be practical, but it's hard to see a single financial reason for consumers to buy petrol/electric hybrids.

[John Jamieson]

Unless you guys closed them:
1. ACE
2. Jackson Valley
3. Jasmin
4. Mount Poso
5. North American
6. Poso
7. Stockton

[The Coopster]

I have an idea........

Instead of everyone poo-pooing and pontificating, fluffing themselves up and trying to show everyone here how incredibly intelligent they are (just ask them).....

...get off your butts and invent something that works. After all, since there are so many "experts" here who can beat the dead horse of why it won't work, and why we're stupid for buying into someone actually trying something different - surely your incredible intellects (especially collectively) can come up with something better.

Unless it's all a bunch of hot air........?

[Tailback]

18 brick sized batteries. What is in batteries? Heavy metals like lead, zinc, lithium, and acid. Where do heavy metals come from? Strip mining! Stupid freaking environmentalist always think they can get something for nothing. Hybrid technology is great but you don't get something for nothing, ever, period.

[BushCountry]

With the breakthroughs in nano-technology batteries tri-bred cars do not seem that out of the question. I want a solar collector roof and hood, exhaust and radiator heat to power a light weight Stirling engine generators to re-charge these batteries at rest. Keep the plug-in adaptor for emergencies.

*******
Toshiba Corporation's breakthrough in lithium-ion batteries that pushes long recharge times into history. The company's new battery can recharge 80% of a battery's energy capacity in only 1 minute, and it is no gimmick.

http://www.geekzone.co.nz/content.asp?contentid=4297

[John Jamieson]

A lot of stuff works, all of it is less safe or costs more than the gas it saves. 65$ crude may change that balance, but only if stays that high for several more years.