Internet Car Sales Scam

12 August 05 | RoadGumby

[RoadGumby]

Hello FRiends, I’ve been a longtime lurker and sometime poster on this site for several years now. The amount of information and the sense of community here on FR is an amazing thing in this day and age. This is the first time I’ve posted a thread on FR, though I have participated in thread discussions. The fact that my first thread is a vanity leads me to ask for forbearance in advance.

[RoadGumby]

Hello FRiends,

I’ve been a longtime lurker and sometime poster on this site for several years now. The amount of information and the sense of community here on FR is an amazing thing in this day and age. This is the first time I’ve posted a thread on FR, though I have participated in thread discussions. The fact that my first thread is a vanity leads me to ask for forbearance in advance.

So, I’ll get to the point. I was recently made aware of a scam being run that targets people trying to sell their cars on the internet or in magazines such as Auto Trader.

My friend is trying to sell his Toyota minivan and had listed it online and in a magazine. He was contacted via e-mail by someone claiming to be acting for a client. The client was interested in purchasing his van as a birthday present for the clients’ wife.

A series of e-mails passed between them over several days. The gist of the situation was this: The client wanted to buy the van. The agreed upon price was $16K. He would able to pay for it outright with a cashiers check. However, due to a previous deal, the only check currently available to send was one in the amount of $24.5K. So, if that was agreeable, the check could be mailed to him, he could extract his $16K and then wire back the balance of $8.5K. He was given very specific instructions on how and where to send the money, including account and routing numbers.

Then my friend began to feel some unease, as there were many misspellings and misuse of words. He went to the internet site he listed on and found a button titled “Fraud” and began reading. It described to a “T” exactly what he was experiencing. According to the fraud description, the check, should he receive it, would be counterfeit, and he would be pressured to deposit it and wire the money quickly due to shipping needs.

And this is what happened. He did receive the check. He took it to Bank of America, the issuing bank, and sure enough, it was faked. The bank seized the check, wrote counterfeit on it and gave him a copy of it.

Then he started getting the pressure via emails that the return transfer needed to be made as soon as possible. He has also received a couple phone calls from a man, Middle-Eastern in speech, asking why there was a delay in the return transfer.

So, his quandary is what to do. He realizes that the scammers know his address and phone number and realizes the potential this implies.

I believe he intends to printout and copy all the emails, the check and provide a letter of explanation and send it all to the FBI.

Maybe it’s just me, but in todays world, Middle-Eastern men trying to scam big money sounds like possible terrorist funding. And hopefully with account and routing numbers, the FBI could track and maybe seize accounts.

In any case, I felt that I should pass this along to all my FRiends here. Apologies again for the vanity.

[RDTF]

No problem RoadGumby and welcome -
The Nigerians are famous for this - and it usually involved a cashier's check that appears to be good.
Thanks for the heads up.

[general_re]

He realizes that the scammers know his address and phone number and realizes the potential this implies.

I wouldn't worry too much - the scammers are out one fake check and a few minutes of their time. They're far more likely to simply move on to the next potential sucker than to try doing anything to your friend. It's likely not an organized campaign to fund some nefarious activity so much as a couple of small-time crooks making a living off of people who are more naive than your friend.

[Prime Choice]

However, due to a previous deal, the only check currently available to send was one in the amount of $24.5K. So, if that was agreeable, the check could be mailed to him, he could extract his $16K and then wire back the balance of $8.5K.

That's the second warning sign. Your friend should have advised the man working for the "client" (the first warning sign) that he was not a bank and should sort out his own financial house before trying to buy a car.

This is just common sense. Sheesh.

[podkane]

One word of advice:

PAYPAL!

[thoughtomator]

Sounds like a minor variation of the time-worn Nigerian finance scam. If someone can't cut you a check for the correct amount, that's a bigtime alarm sounding.

[Hornet19]

I agree with my fellow FReepers' opinions. The only thing I would add is your friend should turn the information over to the authorities. I'd love seeing people like these scammers get nailed on wire fraud, among a host of other charges.

[Clay Moore]

"One word of advice:
PAYPAL!"

Yea, try to get your money back from PAYPAL.

[absalom01]

The exact same scam happened to a co-worker a year ago -- saw it all first hand. The only difference was that the bad chashier's check was drawn on a small Georgia (the one in the USA, not in the old USSR) bank, and was a perfect forgery. B of A accepted the check, and deposited the funds into my co-worker's account. He got cold feet, and a couple of days later, the B of A figured out that the check was no good, and took the money back. Turned it over to the FBI, but the fraudster was overseas, and he never heard anything further.

The scammers just went silent -- they have nothing to gain by chasing someone after they've been found out.

[peyton randolph]

Yea, try to get your money back from PAYPAL.

I had a merchant that I never did business with (I think out of California) try to charge my PayPal Mastercard for more than the outstanding amount in the account. PayPal declined the charge because of this. I reported it to PayPal as an attempt at a fraudulent transaction. After filling out the paperwork and mailing it (can't submit online), I was notified that they could do nothing for me because I hadn't been charged. I was not asking for anything. I was informing them of a fraudulent attempt in case other cards were having this problem with this merchant. After numerous e-mails, I gave up. PayPal idiots clearly didn't want any assistance in identifying fraudulent transactions.

[SpaceBar]

Good first post and an interesting "heads up". No vanity apology required.

[MRMEAN]

Your friend was smart and lucky. Earlier stories of this Nigerian scam variant have had the victim deposit the cashiers check, waiting for the funds tobecome available, and then sending off the overage to the scammer, with perhaps goods. But due to funds availability policies the bank has deposited the funds into the victim's account before the bank itself has received funds. The check comes back bad. The bank then reverses the deposit, sucking out in this case the $24.5 thousand, or whatever is left in the account, and demanding the depositor/victim makeup any shortage.

In theory your friend should call the Secret Service, but he would have to believe the FedGov actual cares about financial frauds being perpetuated against Americans.

[politicalwit]

read all about it here... http://denver.craigslist.org/about/scams.html

[Truthsearcher]

Yes, it is common sense, but I am going to guess is van in question was not worth $16K, you'd be surprised how many people lose their common sense at the prospect of getting a steal of a deal.

That's how these things happen.

[NMR Guy]

The wire-the-difference scam is pretty transparent. It's surprising how many people this ends up fooling. The lesson is that for checks, and even cashiers checks, you need to wait until your bank has verified that the check is real. Depositing the funds in your account doesn't mean that they have done this. It can take some time.

And of course, never participate in any deal where you give back the difference on a check that was for too much.

The smart scammers will do this all much better: Let's say you are selling your Van (or any other item). They will offer to buy it from you and send you a check (forged or from an account with too little money). While they are negotiating to buy from you, they list the item on eBay as a short auction.

Then, when they agree to buy from you, they send you the bad check (which your bank may not know is bad for several days after cashing it for you). The address the scammers have you send your Van (or other items) to is the address of the person who won their eBay auction. That person then pays the scammer, as they have received their item.

Upon finding out that the check you received was forged, and receiving no e-mail response, you end up going after the innocent eBay purchaser, because the scammer told you that was who he was and where he lived. Meanwhile, the scammer disappears with the money.

[Prime Choice]

Yes, it is common sense, but I am going to guess is van in question was not worth $16K, you'd be surprised how many people lose their common sense at the prospect of getting a steal of a deal. That's how these things happen.

That's the part that bugs me. When I was growing up, it was impressed upon me early that if something sounds too good to be true, it typically is. It's like people have become more gullible over the past 40 years. It's just unreal to me.

[RichardW]

This is just another variation of the old scam (name escapes me) that is pulled all the time. Only the gullible and the truly STUPID fall for this. And the elderly. The old saying that a fool and his money are soon parted is still true.

[RichardW]

One word of advice:

PAYPAL!

Don't be so sure. Paypal is just another credit card transaction. If the buyer can convince the issuer that the seller was wrong, they can get a refund of their money. And then there is the matter of fees. You don't think they do this for free do you?

[RichardW]

Here it is. It is called the "Pidgeon Drop Scam."

Read about it here. This what this deal is all about. I would tell those Nigerian scammers to put their check where the sun doesn't shine. They'll move on.

http://www.2scamu.com/pidgindrop.html

[kingu]

I have ten of these fraudulent checks sitting in a file in my office. I've a listing of bank accounts that these criminals want transfered to.

Never have yet gotten the FBI interested, nor the Secret Service. The local police department won't even bother coming into to pick up the checks anymore.

On the positive side, the banks involved are extremely quick on closing the stolen bank accounts and credit cards. One fraud department noted sadly that if I had the physical card I'd be eligible for a reward, but since I didn't, he couldn't do anything.

The other plus side is that the Nigerians rarely bother to send scam emails to me anymore.