[Rodney King]

This is good news. Of course, I am against drunk driving. However, in response to drunk driving deaths, and public outrage against the carnage, the government has done the usual.

Rather than out getting the bad guys, they have decided to make criminals of us all by lowering the threshold of what constitutes criminal behavior.

Studies have shown that most of the carnage is caused by the very drunk, i.e. those in the .2 and above range of drunkenness.

Cops could arrest these guys left and right by waiting outside bars at midnight.

Do they do that? No. Instead they get the threshold of what constitutes DUI lowered to .08, and arrest regular guys who had a couple of beers after work that the cops stopped for speeding or something.

.10, which held in most states for a while, is a reasonable limit. We need to fight the MADD types who want to effectively outlaw drinking and the cops who want to claim success in the war on drunken driving without actually reducing the carnage.

[Rodney King]

bump

[Hank Rearden]

Ping for fighting off the nanny MADD morons.

[roylene]

This is good news.
No one should drive drunk, period. The question is what is drunk?
Personally, I would not drive after 2 or 3 oz of wine (nearly blitzo), where as my husband can drive well after two pints of beer at a good BBQ.
My levels would be low but I would be drunk. My husbands levels would be high and he would not be drunk.
Good news!!

[misterrob]

This type of legislation happens when people cannot police themselves. It only takes a few drinks to impair one's driving ability yet too many people could care less in the pursuit of exercising their "rights". Maybe if folks would just wise up then we wouldn't need government to do it for us.

I speak as a recovering alcoholic (16 plus years sober) but also as a friend of someone murdered (and that's what it is when you have been warned not to drink and drive) by someone having some drinks after work.

[Integrityrocks]

"Studies have shown that most of the carnage is caused by the very drunk, i.e. those in the .2 and above range of drunkenness."

I'd like to see those studies. In my court, its the people who are not real drinkers who are often the worst offenders, ie., they can't handle alcohol and get really stupid on a little bit. Having said that, I would like to see the BAC raised back to at least .10 The real drunks are usually in front of me for spousal abuse and assault cases, not DUIs. Re: hanging around outside of bars waiting for closing time.... a lot of cops do this already, but beware of the dirty words: "profiling" "entrapment"

[Let's Roll]

"Cops could arrest these guys left and right by waiting outside bars at midnight."

Yes, but that would be profiling. </s

[Ditto]

You have to understand that the DUI laws and the .08 limit have oppened a major revenue stream for the legal system. It is a cash cow that nation-wide brings in billions.

[GSlob]

The [blood] alcohol level sufficient to cause a [predetermined] degree of impairment is highly subjective- there must be people who are not to be trusted with driving at 0.05 and others on whom 0.25 would not show. Thus the tests measuring actual functioning and the degree of its impairment, along the line "walk straight" or measuring the reaction time - would be much more relevant than blood alcohol level.

[Abathar]

I totally agree with you, alcohol is no different than other medications - people do react to them differently, and they do build up a tolerance after a while also. If you have ever taken codeine for pain the first few times knock you on your butt, but after a while they hardly even effect you. A guy that has been a heavy drinker his whole life isn't impaired after 3 beers like a teenager is, but they get treated the same in a courtroom. I am against drunk drivers, but I am also against seeing a fat guy with a whopper in one hand and a chocolate shake in the other cruising down the road at 80. I think he is far more deadly sucking the special sauce off of his shirt than the guy that just had a couple while he shot a game of pool at the bar.

[Rippin]

THere are so many things that impair driving and as a result kill people. I think the real damage comes when two or more of those factors team up. E.g., inexperience, night driving and alcoholo. Or cell-phone prescription medicines and lack of sleep. Or bad traffic patterns, rush hour and late for something.

The .08 thing on its own is really silly.

[Capt. Jake]

Very curious decision. Certainly the law would be enforceable if it prohibited driving with a BAL of .08 or higher. That involves no presumption of drunkenss. Simply a bright-line test. One could argue whether the law was reasonable or not as a legislative matter, but there would be no reason to declare it unconstitutional save judicial activism.

[stylin19a]

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=471&invol=307


I don't see it.

[Moral Hazard]

There's an inherent problem in making these laws based upon the risk of causing an accident.

Consider, hypothetically, if having a .10 blood alcohol level makes you 10 times as likely to cause a fatal accident per mile driven as having no alcohol in your blood.

Person A has a blood alcohol level of .10, drives 1 mile.
Person B has a blood alcohol level of .00, drives 20 miles.

Person B is twice as likely to cause a fatal accident, but it's person A that is committing the crime. Fun!

[big'ol_freeper]

Ping

[Sloth]

Rather than out getting the bad guys, they have decided to make criminals of us all by lowering the threshold of what constitutes criminal behavior.

No, they haven't made criminals of us all -- just those of you who drink & drive.

[CHICAGOFARMER]

Rather than out getting the bad guys, they have decided to make criminals of us all by lowering the threshold of what constitutes criminal behavior.


zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


YOU are on target, hit the nail on the head, scored, a winner, cooking with gas.

Keep it up guy. they will love you for it.

[Final Authority]

Although I do not condone it, driving with open containers was legal in NH up until about ten years ago. Then they dropped the limit to .08, and now there is a hair brained scheme to force everybody with two convictions to spend considerable time in jail.

The jail thing makes it difficult for a fair minded cop to put the cuffs on a driver who just has had a couple of drinks but otherwise can make it home OK and so already second conviction rate is down, or, it could be the deterrent factor. But what is obvious is the change in the scenery since it has become illegal to have an open container, the roadside litter of beer cans and bottles, not to mention small vodka bottles is alarming.

[caver]

Another thing along these lines is the open container law recently came into being here in Indiana. Any empty beer can laying in your floorboard can get you popped. Tell me what an empty can of beer or even one can of open beer in a car can do?

[sierrahome]

When I was a kid we use to ice skate on a pond on the outskirts of town. We would build a huge fire in a pit that had been used for generations. We were all underage but many would bring rum or beer and we would play hockey until 3 or 4 in the morning. The county provided two big lights on the pond. The police would often stop and talk with us and remark "good to see you kids having some clean fun" They knew there was alcohol but we kept it down and alcohol wasn't the reason for the gathering either.
When alcohol becomes the reason for the party that's big trouble.
There is an 8 foot chain link fence around the pond and a whole lotta kids with nothing to do. That sure seems like the case in a lot of other small towns too.

[Sergio]

LOL!!!

Virginia's law is unconstitutional because it presumes that an individual with a blood-alcohol content of 0.08 or higher is intoxicated, denying a defendant's right to a presumption of innocence, Judge Ian O'Flaherty ruled in dismissing charges against at least two alleged drunken drivers last month.

You can't make this stuff up, but I'll try.

Afterwords the judge was heard to say, (in your best Irish accent) "Well now lads, what say we tip a pint or two of stout to celebrate the end of the day."

Best Regards Sergio