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Key claim against global warming evaporates; Satellite, balloon data based on faulty analyses
MSNBC LiveScience ^ | August 12, 2005 | Ker Than

Posted on 08/12/2005 8:20:24 AM PDT by cogitator

For years, skeptics of global warming have used satellite and weather balloon data to argue that climate models were wrong and that global warming isn't really happening.

Now, according to three new studies published in the journal Science, it turns out those conclusions based on satellite and weather balloon data were based on faulty analyses.

The atmosphere is indeed warming, not cooling as the data previously showed.

...

Argument evaporates

According to Santer, the only group to previously analyze satellite data on the troposphere -- the lowest layer in Earth's atmosphere -- was a research team headed by Roy Spencer from University of Alabama in 1992.

"This was used by some critics to say 'We don't believe in climate models, they're wrong,'" Santer told LiveScience. "Other people used the disconnect between what the satellites told and what surface thermometers told us to argue that the surface data were wrong and that earth wasn't really warming because satellites were much more accurate."

(Excerpt) Read more at msnbc.msn.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: atmosphere; ballooons; change; climate; globalwarminghoax; junkscience; models; msu; normalearthchanges; radiosondes; satellites; trends; troposphere; warming
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To: Puppage

I had three books written during that time about the coming ice age. They all had a lot of scientific facts and charts and graph. Very impressive and evidently very wrong.


41 posted on 08/12/2005 9:13:50 AM PDT by redangus
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To: cogitator

"Sherwood explains these discrepancies by pointing out that the older radiosonde instruments used in the 1970's were not as well shielded from sunlight as more recent models. What this means as that older radiosondes showed warmer temperature readings during the day because they were warmed by sunlight"

--- If so, there should have been a step change in the graph of each temperature point at the moment that the new device replaced the old in each radiosonde balloon. If the graph of temperatures for a location shows this step change, it should pretty conclusively prove that the equipment is a cause. Since there are 'many' such locations around the globe, it should be pretty obvious on any data analysis since the same thing would happen immediately after the new device is installed at every location.

Common engineering practice is to run both a new & old measurement device in parallel whenever possible to make sure that the reading is repeatable & is reading the same thing. I would like to believe that climate scientists & meterologists us this scientific practice. If so, any difference in readings should have been noted immediately & at every station as the new device is used.

If the difference between the new & old devices was so small it it couldn't be detected at the time, but only later through trend analysis, it would seem that (if both devices were working correctly), any change in trend would NOT be due to the device but an actual change in conditions.

However, that is not what I read in the articles. A theory is proposed (that the difference in the readings is due to faulty equipment) but then the articles go on to a detailed explaination of how an adjusting (fudge factor?) was incorrectly applied 30 years ago and now that it is correctly applied, everything trends together.

Regardless of the merits of climate change or not (personally I'm agnostic on it), if you can't prove your case with direct numbers & statistics and you have to rely on "adjustments" and "correlations", then you really can't prove your case.


42 posted on 08/12/2005 9:14:24 AM PDT by Casekirchen (If allah is just another name for the Judeo-Christian God, why do the islamics pray to a rock?)
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To: redangus

EXACTLY! Please see post 38.


43 posted on 08/12/2005 9:15:27 AM PDT by HeadOn (Strict Construction - otherwise, why bother?)
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To: freepatriot32

ping list


44 posted on 08/12/2005 9:15:29 AM PDT by FOG724 (RINOS - they are not better than the leftists, they ARE the leftists.)
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To: cogitator

But the hottest summers on record in Indiana and I would image Wisconsin were in the mid 30's; 34,35,36. Records in Indianapolis only go back to 1887 so we have just over a century of data to work with here.


45 posted on 08/12/2005 9:16:44 AM PDT by redangus
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To: HeadOn

True.

It was much warmer in the early medieval warm period.


46 posted on 08/12/2005 9:17:34 AM PDT by rwfromkansas (http://www.xanga.com/home.aspx?user=rwfromkansas)
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To: narby

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/coolingworld.pdf


47 posted on 08/12/2005 9:18:18 AM PDT by Rakkasan1 (DON'T BICKER, DRINK LIQUOR-DON'T THINK, JUST DRINK.)
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To: CROSSHIGHWAYMAN

The Saber tooth tigers ate them?


48 posted on 08/12/2005 9:19:30 AM PDT by F.J. Mitchell (Respecting liberal democrats requires contempt for every thing respectable.)
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To: JustDoItAlways
It is impossible to understand what kind of "error correction analyses" was done here.

Perhaps this is better explained in the papers which have been published in Science.

49 posted on 08/12/2005 9:29:15 AM PDT by cogitator
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To: CivilWarguy
MSNBC does a story about people criticizing the Spencer studies, yet does not even try to interview Spencer

He's been interviewed numerous times, and has no trouble finding a media voice. I'm certain we'll hear from him soon; Christy already has a press release out about their new data analysis.

50 posted on 08/12/2005 9:30:34 AM PDT by cogitator
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To: cogitator

Fact is, we can't reliably predict a week of weather, and the envirohysterics are claiming their predictions extending years are sacrosanct and infallible.


51 posted on 08/12/2005 9:32:48 AM PDT by thoughtomator (Free Michael Graham!)
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To: cogitator
As usual, total BS. No thinking person disputes the fact that there's a warming trend that started at the end of the last Ice Age. It's merely the latest in a long series of global cold/warm cycles. The first key question is how much warming is attributable to human beings as distinguished from solar output fluctuations, axial tilt variations, greenhouse gases from other natural sources (I consider humans to be 'natural'), although socialist "environmentalists" don't.

The second key question is: What the hell can we do about it if it's really a threat to life on the planet? The Kyoto treaty is ineffective political eyewash designed with only one thing in mind: destruction of the U.S. economy and distribution of our wealth around the globe under auspices of that "noble" institution, the U.N. It's socialist "humanitarianism" based on Marxist political theory. A lot of those people just don't think humanity should survive.

I've always been a true Darwinist, unlike the liberals who pretend they can "freeze" evolution and species extinction with the silly Endangered Species Act (while truly being only cynically interested in obstructing capitalist activity). If the planet heats or cools too much we'll either fail as a species and go extinct -- an interesting experiment in biological self-awareness -- or a few hardy souls will survive to carry on, just as our ancestors did in the Pleistocene Ice Age. Either way, there's not a damned thing we can do about it. And I'd rather die free and capitalist than servile and socialist.

52 posted on 08/12/2005 9:33:42 AM PDT by Bernard Marx (Don't make the mistake of interpreting my Civility as Servility)
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To: cogitator

read later


53 posted on 08/12/2005 9:34:55 AM PDT by Sam Cree (Democrats are herd animals)
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To: HeadOn
So, what was the ratio of Carbon-13 to Carbon-12 molecules in the atmosphere, in say, the 1300's?

It is possible to measure the 13C/12C ratio going back at least 10,000 years. Also, in paleoclimate studies, the 13C/12C ratio is used in sedimentary carbonates to estimate temperature.

How do we know that recent CO2 increases are due to human activities? is a good quick article to read on this.

54 posted on 08/12/2005 9:39:52 AM PDT by cogitator
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To: redangus
But the hottest summers on record in Indiana and I would image Wisconsin were in the mid 30's; 34,35,36.

Yes, the '30s and '40s were warmer and the '60s and '70s were colder.

55 posted on 08/12/2005 9:41:35 AM PDT by cogitator
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To: thoughtomator
Fact is, we can't reliably predict a week of weather,

Predicting climate is not the same thing as predicting weather.

56 posted on 08/12/2005 9:42:30 AM PDT by cogitator
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To: cogitator

That global warming is occuring is beyond dispute. And for me, the evidence that it is largely human-caused, and that for the most part, the effects thus far have been negative, is more highly convincing the skeptic's take on the matter. What is an issue of dispute is how do we deal with it; policies like Kyoto may look good on paper, but we have seen the disastrous effects of large-scale economic interventionism and social planning, and are still feeling them today, and the drastic remedies some propose may cause more problems than they solve.


57 posted on 08/12/2005 9:46:49 AM PDT by RightWingAtheist (Creationism is not conservative!)
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To: narby

"When the climatologists can explain why we had ice ages and why they ended, then I'll buy into whatever they say about human causation for warming."

We had ice ages because it got colder. They ended because it got warmer. Next question?


58 posted on 08/12/2005 9:53:46 AM PDT by StrangerInParadise (This tagline has been reported stolen. If you see it, call BR-549..........)
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To: Bernard Marx
No thinking person disputes the fact that there's a warming trend that started at the end of the last Ice Age. It's merely the latest in a long series of global cold/warm cycles. The first key question is how much warming is attributable to human beings as distinguished from solar output fluctuations, axial tilt variations, greenhouse gases from other natural sources (I consider humans to be 'natural'), although socialist "environmentalists" don't.

The warming trend started near the end of the last glacial epoch and essentially ended when the continental ice sheets had receded. The Holocene climate has been quite stable, with very little temperature variation. What is of concern now is an apparent rapid warming trend that is at least in part caused by human activities. As the data gets better, something these studies contribute to, the ability to quantify the human contribution will improve.

The second key question is: What the hell can we do about it if it's really a threat to life on the planet?

Disregarding the hot-button Kyoto Protocol, which isn't a good answer to your question above, let me dissect your question.

Global warming isn't a threat to "life" on the planet; life in some form will survive. However, global warming will stress a number of systems that are important to the survival of both the human and natural realms. A very notable effect could be a significant reduction in the flow of fresh water derived from mountain glaciers. We need it to drink and irrigate, animals and rivers need it to maintain their natural existence, etc. This is a significant and expected "downstream" change due to global warming, and we shouldn't ignore the fact that the CIA Global 2015 report indicated a high likelihood of wars over water in coming decades.

So global warming, along with other types of climate and environmental change, will significantly alter life on this planet.

How much is too much? I'm particularly worried about the fate of coral reefs, Darwinist or not. I'm also kinda worried about honeybees, though the problem with them is not really climate-caused, but could be affected by climate.

When you ask what can (or should) be done about it, the first thing I say is to get better answers to pertinent questions, such as how much warming is too much for ecosystems to handle. That means more research, and dedicated research, and less nay-saying that the research isn't important because global warming isn't happening. It is.

The next step is to identify free market-based ways to make addressing climate change and GHG emissions something that people recognize they need to do. Coercion won't work, but incentives probably will. The key is identifying what incentives will be effective and implement-able.

59 posted on 08/12/2005 9:54:18 AM PDT by cogitator
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To: cogitator
Predicting climate is not the same thing as predicting weather.

True, it's much more difficult. Modelling weather accurately (mesoscale) is one key ingredient in the climate models and they don't do that well at all (something like 100 square mile resolution last I saw).

60 posted on 08/12/2005 9:56:17 AM PDT by palmer (If you see flies at the entrance to the burrow, the ground hog is probably inside)
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