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Supreme Court asked to hear witch case
Richmond Times-Dispatch ^ | 8/9/05

Posted on 08/09/2005 6:45:50 PM PDT by Crackingham

The American Civil Liberties Union has asked the U.S. Supreme Court to review a decision that allows the Chesterfield County Board of Supervisors to exclude a local witch from leading the prayer at open meetings.

The ACLU of Virginia yesterday filed its petition with the court seeking to reverse a Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals decision, said ACLU attorney Rebecca K. Glenberg.

"Our position is that the 4th Circuit did something really extreme in its decision," she said. "It held that it was acceptable for a government body to treat people differently because of religion."

Cynthia Simpson, a witch who lives in Chesterfield, requested in 2002 to be placed on a list of religious leaders invited to deliver the invocation at meetings of the Board of Supervisors. So far, her request has been denied.

(Excerpt) Read more at timesdispatch.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events; Philosophy; US: Virginia
KEYWORDS: 4thcircuit; aclu; fourthcircuit; lawsuit; prayer; vaaclu; wiccan
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To: Jeff Blogworthy
The Christian "theocracy" thing is just a canard used to scare people. Christianity is not so monolithic as that.

It doesn't have to be monolithic. All it has to do is have the government controlled by Christians with no protections for others. Those in charge then do what they believe is right according to their religion, which can be disastrous for others not of the same exact belief. Again, look at the recently deposed Charles Taylor. Going further back, it gets worse, to the point where you were killing and deporting other Christians over differences in doctrine.

This is somehow seen as a "threat." An all-out assault is currently being waged to strip Christians of the ability to speak, and participate in government, through the use of activist judges and groups like the ACLU. The opinions of Christians are slowly being redefined as "hate speech."

It is of course wrong to attempt to silence Christians as much as it is those of other faiths. I support Fred Phelps' right to picket gay funerals, however detestable I find the tactic to be. However, I doubt a Fred Phelps in charge would even allow gays to protest his policies.

Like I said - the only abliity any Christian has to impose his will is through the appropriate channels of representative government, just like everyone else.

That's the problem. Our government isn't about imposing anybody's will on anyone else. The people are supposed to be free from the tyranny of the majority with minimal government intervention in their lives.

You want an example of people imposing their will on others through government? Just look at the anti-smoking nazis.

41 posted on 08/10/2005 7:56:45 AM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: antiRepublicrat; thompsonsjkc; odoso; animoveritas; DaveTesla; mercygrace; ...

Moral Absolutes Ping.

More on this case - and a response to the claim that everything that claims to be a religion should be given a platform equally.

Giving protection to every religion is one thing; giving pseudo-religions the opportunity to publicly pray in front of people who DO NOT WANT TO LISTEN TO THE FAKE RELIGIOUS PERSON is entirely different.

I suppose this "witch" claims membership in Wicca, which is a faux cult/sect invented by an Englishman in the 1940s out of a hodge podge of various dibs and dabs of this and that.

Freepmail me is you want on/off this pinglist.

Note: The County Board of Supervisors should certainly be able to pick and choose whose prayers, if any, they'd like to hear.


42 posted on 08/10/2005 7:59:24 AM PDT by little jeremiah (A vitiated state of morals, a corrupted public conscience, are incompatible with freedom. P. Henry)
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To: IronJack
We're a Christain nation. Get over it.

Er... Never mind.

Hail Odin!

43 posted on 08/10/2005 8:14:09 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (Never underestimate the will of the downtrodden to lie flatter.)
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To: Huck

lol


44 posted on 08/10/2005 8:15:40 AM PDT by BibChr ("...behold, they have rejected the word of the LORD, so what wisdom is in them?" [Jer. 8:9])
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To: little jeremiah
I suppose this "witch" claims membership in Wicca, which is a faux cult/sect invented by an Englishman in the 1940s

Wicca is a federally recognized religion, reorganized after times of persecution under Christianity (remember, you used to burn these people). They used to be called pagan, druid, etc.

Mormon is a religion invented in the 1800s out of a base of Christianity.

Islam is a religion invented in the 600s from Arabic culture and Judeo/Christian thought.

Christianity is a religion invented in the first couple centuries AD, based on Judaism.

Judaism is a religion invented a couple thousand BC, evolving from earlier polytheistic beliefs.

What specifies a valid religion? Age? If so, then the Hindus have everyone beat.

45 posted on 08/10/2005 8:16:33 AM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: IronJack

> a crackpot crystal-worshipping faddist

A QVC fundamentalist?

> For the same reason our coinage bears the motto "In God We Trust"

What... a desire to "stick it" to Commies?

> For the same reason our framing document is written "with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence."

Framing document? I don't seem to remember that Deist teminology in the Constitution...


> We ask God -- the real God

Odin.

> to guide His fallible creations in the work they're about to undertake.

Be better if the people asked to do a job followed the *Consitituion,* not some god or other. Hold to the Constitution and you can't go wrong. Hold to what you think some god or other is telling you, and all manner of irrational wackiness will result.

> We're a Christain nation.

Huh. One wonders, then, why the legal system in this country is based on that of the pagan Saxons and not on the Ten Commandments, then.


46 posted on 08/10/2005 8:28:27 AM PDT by orionblamblam ("You're the poster boy for what ID would turn out if it were taught in our schools." VadeRetro)
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To: little jeremiah

> Giving protection to every religion is one thing; giving pseudo-religions the opportunity to publicly pray in front of people who DO NOT WANT TO LISTEN TO THE FAKE RELIGIOUS PERSON is entirely different.

OK, You have a Baptist and a Catholic. Each claim the other is a "fake" religion. Does the one have the right to silence the other?

But I found this bit startling:
"giving pseudo-religions the opportunity to publicly pray"

Who knew you were part fo the ACLU?


47 posted on 08/10/2005 8:31:13 AM PDT by orionblamblam ("You're the poster boy for what ID would turn out if it were taught in our schools." VadeRetro)
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To: Jeff Blogworthy
If one accepts the bastardization of the Constitution that "no single religion can be given preference over another," then this is the logical, inevitable outcome. This is the kind of case that proves the lie.

Yup. The satanists are up next.

48 posted on 08/10/2005 8:41:26 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: antiRepublicrat

I thank you for the debate, and your calm, reasoned responses. My limited time requires me to withdraw.

My last word: While I agree we should have as much freedom as possible, all laws (or standards - i.e. marriage) represent an imposition on someone; I was using your language.

Using an extreme example is one way to demonize an opponent, but it does not represent the truth. You will find very few Christians willing to support the likes of Fred Phelps. I think you know that. In fact, I would go so far as to question the designation "Christian" as it applies to Phelps period.

I am not familiar with Charles Taylor, but I will look it up.


49 posted on 08/10/2005 8:43:05 AM PDT by Jeff Blogworthy
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To: antiRepublicrat
The point is that the Fathers knew that while most people here were Christian, the government needed to be religion-neutral in order to ensure freedom.

You're projecting your ideology on the Founding Fathers. They never expressed this typically modern idea.

50 posted on 08/10/2005 8:43:42 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: Jeff Blogworthy
Atheism is also a religion

I am sick and tired of this LIE....
Prove it or STFU.
51 posted on 08/10/2005 8:45:11 AM PDT by newcats
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To: antiRepublicrat
What specifies a valid religion?

Its truth. "Validity" is proportionate to truth.

52 posted on 08/10/2005 8:46:15 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: Crackingham
she turned me into a newt!

i got better
53 posted on 08/10/2005 8:46:58 AM PDT by absolootezer0 ("My God, why have you forsaken us.. no wait, its the liberals that have forsaken you... my bad")
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To: Crackingham

Build a bridge out of her!


54 posted on 08/10/2005 8:48:40 AM PDT by avg_freeper (Gunga galunga. Gunga, gunga galunga)
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To: WKUHilltopper

Nahhh,
Even easier,

Make her cry...if she can't shed tears, she's a witch.


55 posted on 08/10/2005 8:49:44 AM PDT by najida (I officially have a home-- ~~sigh~~ with ice cubes even.)
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To: absolootezer0
No just ruling can ever be reached without a duck!
56 posted on 08/10/2005 8:51:44 AM PDT by avg_freeper (Gunga galunga. Gunga, gunga galunga)
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To: Ma3lst0rm

LOL cute graphic.


57 posted on 08/10/2005 8:53:07 AM PDT by Extremely Extreme Extremist
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To: IronJack
She'll get scant satisfaction gabbling to an empty room

Really! Who would she be praying to anyways? Satan? Mother Nature?

I'm sure no one is otherwise listening or interested in her braying praying.

58 posted on 08/10/2005 8:57:14 AM PDT by Bear_Slayer (Montani semper liberi !)
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To: antiRepublicrat

Wicca is not traditional. It is invented out of whole cloth, as I mentioned. It certainly deserves protection as far as being able to practice it, as long as no laws are broken. But it is not in the category of Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism and other monotheist religions.

Have you read up on Gardiner, the inventor of Wicca?

You say that "I" used to burn people...???

BTW, I am a longtime student of the Vedas.


59 posted on 08/10/2005 8:57:14 AM PDT by little jeremiah (A vitiated state of morals, a corrupted public conscience, are incompatible with freedom. P. Henry)
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To: orionblamblam

Your hatred of God blinds you so much that it is pretty useless trying to communicate with you.

Baptists and Catholics don't consider each others' religions "fake", btw.

Comparing me to the ACLU is pretty funny.


60 posted on 08/10/2005 8:59:23 AM PDT by little jeremiah (A vitiated state of morals, a corrupted public conscience, are incompatible with freedom. P. Henry)
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