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Old enemies' wargames send a powerful message to the US
Times Online ^ | August 3, 2005 | Jane Macartney

Posted on 08/08/2005 7:29:02 PM PDT by Bald Eagle777

Russia and China hope to sign a massive arms deal after staging joint exercises for the first time

RUSSIA will show off its most modern bombers to its best military customer and China will have a chance to demonstrate that it is a force to be reckoned with when the giant neighbours hold their first joint military exercises this month. The decision to hold the drills off the east China coast in the Yellow Sea came after a disagreement over Beijing’s initial desire for the games to take place further south, opposite the island of Taiwan — which it hopes one day to recover, by force if necessary.

Yesterday’s announcement that 100,000 troops would mass from August 18 to 25 marked the culmination of years of rapprochement between countries that were once bitter enemies, which went to war in a minor territorial dispute in the 1970s, but now see themselves as strategic partners.

Their common interests include the sale of Russian oil to help to meet the energy needs of China’s fast-growing economy as well as the strategic goal of showing the United States that other powers were rising in the East.

History has enabled them to leave behind old enmities. Shi Yinhong, Professor of the School of International Studies at Renmin University, Beijing, said: “China needs to buy Russian military equipment and resources. For Russia, China is an important market and a source of hard currency.”

Peace Mission 2005, involving army, navy, air force, marine, airborne and logistics units, will begin on August 18 near the Russian Pacific Fleet headquarters in Vladivostok, moving to the Yellow Sea and then to an area off the Jiaodong peninsula in the coastal Chinese province of Shandong. “The exercises neither aim at any third party nor concern the interests of any third country,” the Chinese Defence Ministry said.

Russian paratroops will jump on to the peninsula, while Russian ships will engage in amphibious landing exercises.

Air force exercises involving Sukhoi Su27 fighter aircraft and Tupolev TU95MSs and TU22M-3s will round out the drills, with long-distance bombing runs and cruise missile attacks. The exercises could also involve China’s nuclear submarine fleet and antisubmarine warfare capability.

Analysts say there is little doubt that China is keen to send a message to the US. Not only is it gradually expanding its influence in Asia, eroding decades of dominance by Washington, but it also has the cash to go on a spending spree to update its military.

Russia’s TU160, TU95MS and TU22M3 strategic bombers and the improved Su27SM fighters will scream through the skies. It is not only their high-tech cockpits that Russia wants to show off. China may want to update its fleet of old, lumbering bombers with TU22M3s and TU95s capable of carrying long-haul nuclear-tipped cruise missiles. Russian nerves tingled when the European Union considered lifting its arms embargo on China earlier this year and since then Moscow has shown an interest in offering higher-technology arms to its top buyer.

The war games will involve a Russian airlift of an airborne unit to the training location by Il76 transport aircraft, launching a cruise missile to an imaginary target with TU22M3 medium-range bombers and bombing ground units with Su27SM fighters.

The two governments have invited observers from other governments in the six-nation Shanghai Co-operation Organisation, a security group led by Beijing and Moscow. The group, meant to combat separatism and Islamic extremism in Central Asia, includes Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan and Kazakhstan.

The show of strength is enough to shake China’s neighbours, but may not go too far in tipping the balance of power in the Pacific. So China is relying on diplomacy as well to boost its influence, quietly eroding the pre-eminence of the United States in the process. Li Zhaoxing, the Chinese Foreign Minister, has had a helping hand recently from Condoleezza Rice, the US Secretary of State. She stayed away last week from an annual strategic forum involving the US, Japan and China in a meeting of South-East Asian nations. That left the stage to Mr Li, who dropped in to show Asia that China cared. The unspoken message was that Washington had seen fit to send only less-senior officials.

Vadim Solovyov, the Chief Editor of the Independent Military Survey, said: “These exercises are a challenge to the US and its allies — a new military alliance is forming. Now there is a unipolar world. Russia and China can make a second pole.”


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: antisubmarine; asia; asw; balanceofpower; chicoms; china; chinathreat; jointoperations; opfor; pacific; russia; security; taiwan; taiwanstraits; warfare
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To: Bald Eagle777
The Chinese have this money as a result of a manufacturing economy that is dependent on the patronage of the people - us - at whom the toys they're buying are ostensibly pointed. But there isn't much they really can do militarily except bother the people who sold them the toys. What do they want that those toys can get them? Territory, such as Taiwan or the border territory they've already fought a war against the ex-Soviets over? A ruined and impoverished Korea? A Japan that they failed to conquer in the 13th century? What?

The good news is that they won't be taking over the world militarily - the best they can do is wreck it. The bad news is that if they figure out a way to take over the world economically, we're toast.

21 posted on 08/08/2005 8:02:54 PM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: Billthedrill
The bad news is that if they figure out a way to take over the world economically, we're toast.

Think wal mart in the US.

22 posted on 08/08/2005 8:06:57 PM PDT by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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"Old enemies' wargames send a powerful message to the US"

Don't trip over our crappy submersibles...

23 posted on 08/08/2005 8:14:47 PM PDT by StAnDeliver ("That was the gift the President gave us, the gift of happiness, of being together."-- Cindy Sheehan)
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To: pbrown; Billthedrill
All they have to do is to create a 'massive disturbance' in the US (read, nuke or bio) and they will have a window of a couple of years or more to clean our economic clocks.

And neither China nor Russia has to do the dirty deed; they have the Islamofascists queued up to do so.

24 posted on 08/08/2005 8:20:29 PM PDT by Sender (Team Infidel USA)
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To: Sender

I read on a thread not too long ago that Chinas hands were dirty concerning 9-11. A hit on our economy possibly. That would destroy it, but it didn't happen. We survived.


25 posted on 08/08/2005 8:27:08 PM PDT by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: pbrown

WalMart doesn't mean they own us, it means we own them. When that ceases to be the case we have a problem.


26 posted on 08/08/2005 8:28:40 PM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: Bald Eagle777

Coming two days after they had to call us to save their submarine, this display of force is somehow less awe-inspiring than they mean it to be.


27 posted on 08/08/2005 8:33:02 PM PDT by denydenydeny ("As a Muslim of course I am a terrorist"--Sheikh Omar Brooks, quoted in the London Times 8/7/05)
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To: Billthedrill
Should china decide to send an aerial present our way, we only have ourselves to blame. We paid for it. I look at so many items in wal mart trying to buy something that isn't made in china.
28 posted on 08/08/2005 8:33:23 PM PDT by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: StAnDeliver

Yeah, Russia's Military Behemoth really impressed me to death recently when they called the British (and us) in to free their mini sub. RELAX people. They are a regional power at best.
China at this point is a totally different animal than Russia. Bill Gertz talks a lot about what China is doing.
Notably, China is a Communist country (supposedly) that does have a strong economy, and does spend money on weapons (at least according to Gertz).

Yes, this is all of serious interest. What's of much greater concern (in my opinion) is the transfer of nuclear material and know-how to countries such as Iran.


29 posted on 08/08/2005 9:03:10 PM PDT by ottersnot (Kill a commie for your mommie....Johnnie Ramone. American Rocker and patriot)
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To: Boundless

my sorces say Bromo Seltzer


30 posted on 08/08/2005 9:11:45 PM PDT by wildcatf4f3 (whats wrong with a draft?)
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To: bbenton
Hell I think It's a good thing, we need an enemy. The rag heads have demonstrated that they are no match for us, we need a foe we can get our teeth around. This country has created every enemy we ever had. Without one we would stagnate as a race, just look at the modern day euro-pussies if you want an example. Their male population has become so effeminate that they have to import muslim barbarians to mate with their own women to perpetuate their race. Having an enemy is a good thing.
31 posted on 08/09/2005 1:56:29 AM PDT by Vote 4 Nixon (EAT...FISH...SLEEP...REDUX)
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To: Vote 4 Nixon

Curious, How many wars have you fought in? How much time have you spent in Europe? and How often do you shop at Wal-Mart?



32 posted on 08/09/2005 2:11:01 AM PDT by Paulus
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To: Bald Eagle777

They didn't have the equipment to rescue their own submariners.


33 posted on 08/09/2005 2:46:13 AM PDT by OpusatFR (Try permaculture and get back to the Founders intent. Mr. Jefferson lives!)
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To: bbenton
WW III Forty years down the line. Actually I think the Cold War was WW III and we are now in the early stages of WW IV, only its just being disguised for various reasons. Eventually (in 20 years or less) it will morph into a confrontation with China and its allies (perhaps including Russia). This confrontation could look like the Cold War with periodic Taiwan crisis and proxy wars or become more direct and involve direct military confrontation in what the Japanese used to call the 'South Seas Resource Zone' and in the littoral waters of mainland China. Whatever shape it will take it will be more amorphous and complicated than other conflicts as the Chinese will endlessly practice talk and fight or more correctly trade and fight strategies.
34 posted on 08/09/2005 4:54:16 AM PDT by robowombat
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To: Bald Eagle777

So, We know where and when - now we just unleash the beast and suprise the comunists with a fatal blow to the head....

courtesy of the Red White and Blue.


35 posted on 08/09/2005 5:57:20 AM PDT by phasma proeliator (It's not always being fast or even accurate that counts... it's being willing.)
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To: pbrown

If that is what is loose, than all the postering will be rather moot soon.


36 posted on 08/09/2005 6:45:26 AM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: redgolum
If that is what is loose, than all the postering will be rather moot soon.

The avian flu would be the lesser of two evils. I pray to God it's not the other or we're all in serious trouble.

37 posted on 08/09/2005 7:32:53 AM PDT by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: Bald Eagle777
We beat the Soviets. We'll beat the Chinese too. And we'll fleece them financially in the process.

Russia's betting on a loser here, namely, that a communist state will prevail over the free world.

I notice that the article can't resist a shot at calling Russia/China a new 'pole' to oppose the sheer superpowerness of America. This is a laugh. The last 'pole' was Europe in opposing our Iraqi war. And now they're falling into line to support our position after only a couple of puny bombs in London.
38 posted on 08/09/2005 7:52:49 AM PDT by George W. Bush
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To: pbrown

well, why would the Chinese want to mess up our economy? aren't we their largest market? just, a question.


39 posted on 08/09/2005 8:18:37 AM PDT by DTwistedSisterS
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To: Bald Eagle777
The reported size of the exercise is off by an order of magnitude. The number is 10,000, not 100,000. See this link China, Russia to launch first joint military exercises
40 posted on 08/09/2005 8:32:38 AM PDT by Jack of all Trades
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