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Prices Fuel a Rebellion
Washington Post. ^

Posted on 08/07/2005 5:10:04 PM PDT by traumer

Drivers Tired of Paying More for Premium Gasoline Switch to Regular

For some people, it's hitting the big five-oh that really hurts -- that is, dropping $50 on a tank of gas. For others, it's just that relentless upward creep in prices that gets their attention.

Whatever the trigger, drivers pulling up to the pump in vehicles that ostensibly require high-grade gas are wondering if they really need the more expensive fuel or whether it's okay just to fill it up with regular. As gas prices soar, car owners increasingly are going for the cheaper stuff -- no matter how fancy their wheels. And station owners and oil companies are seeing the impact: Sales of premium and mid-grade gasoline are tumbling.

It's an age-old response, industry experts say, for drivers to switch from pricey, higher-octane formulations of gas to cheaper alternatives whenever gasoline prices rise substantially. Now, with prices stuck stubbornly high, oil experts wonder whether high-grade gas will go the way of the Studebaker.

"I foresee no serious decline in prices anytime soon, so the question is, will consumers' buying habits change permanently if the higher prices stay as they are," said Daniel F. Gilligan, president of the Petroleum Marketers Association, which represents independent filling stations. "Will it be more difficult to attract consumers back to the higher-octane fuels? I don't know."

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: diesel; energy; gasprices; oil
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To: Shawndell Green
A guy at work got rid of his Camry after he was told that he needed a new engine due to a sludge problem. I thought they were just shining him on.

No, they weren't. It was an ugly problem, and eventually Toyota extended the warranty on the Camry engines, but they also put out a service bulletin, stating that you need to run an engine cleaner with EVERY oil change, and it was strongly recommended (though not required) that only Toyota dealerships change the oil. It was MOST IMPORTANT to keep records of every oil change!

Mark

61 posted on 08/07/2005 7:28:33 PM PDT by MarkL (It was a shocking cock-up. The mice were furious!)
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To: trubluolyguy
If you think the oil companies are making too much money, buy some of their stock on margin.
62 posted on 08/07/2005 7:28:45 PM PDT by Shawndell Green (Mecca delenda est!)
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To: TexConfederate1861
Low Sulfur Diesel has been around for years, they must have tacked on some other stupid (but highly profitable to a Campaign Donor/Lobbyist) regulation for an additive or whatever.
There was a heating oil shortage back east, the price went up and never came back down, just kept on climbing.
63 posted on 08/07/2005 7:33:13 PM PDT by TexasTransplant (NEMO ME IMPUNE LACESSET)
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To: Shawndell Green
I just wish some of the folks who criticize oil companies realized what a boom and bust cycle it is. Nobody cares when oil prices are cheap and thousands of workers get laid off.

But everyone notices when prices get high and the companies quit going bankrupt.

I work for an oil company and it's certainly flying high during this price cycle. I'd be an idiot if I believed that these prices are a new bottom despite what I read.

I've seen this too many times.

64 posted on 08/07/2005 7:34:16 PM PDT by Dog Gone
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To: Excuse_My_Bellicosity

Amen. Gas is a bargain.


65 posted on 08/07/2005 7:35:25 PM PDT by hubbubhubbub
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To: motzman

That's a democrat solution.


66 posted on 08/07/2005 7:36:33 PM PDT by hubbubhubbub
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To: WhiteGuy

>>>"I'd at least like to get a nice dinner first.........."<<<

Depends on who is going to use me, Michelle, Ann.....

:^)

TT


67 posted on 08/07/2005 7:37:01 PM PDT by TexasTransplant (NEMO ME IMPUNE LACESSET)
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To: TexasTransplant
Low sulfur diesel has been around for years. But we're talking about "Ultra" low sulfur diesel.

And I can guarantee that Super-ultra low sulfur diesel is not far away.
68 posted on 08/07/2005 7:37:47 PM PDT by cockroach_magoo
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To: MarkL
The reason that this becomes important is because of problems with the EGR system design in some engines, you can wind up with some very serious "sludging" problems.

The sludging problem is a Toyota problem, and they finally admitted it. My car is one that is on the list, and I think they will replace the engine if it goes bad due to this problem.

69 posted on 08/07/2005 7:40:08 PM PDT by Patriotic1
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To: cockroach_magoo
Tomorrow I am going out and cut down a Tree in protest!
70 posted on 08/07/2005 7:40:38 PM PDT by TexasTransplant (NEMO ME IMPUNE LACESSET)
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To: OKIEDOC
The current oil crisis is in the minds of the oil speculators

BS. It's being driven by supply and demand. China and India are growing, driving the demand. On the supply side, we are nearing Peak Oil. Supply cannot keep up with demand.

It really is that simple.

For some folks, it easier to blame boogeymen like "speculators".

71 posted on 08/07/2005 7:47:38 PM PDT by Mulder (“The spirit of resistance is so valuable, that I wish it to be always kept alive" Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Excuse_My_Bellicosity
The media is pulling out all the stops to get people in a frenzy over gas prices

And political fanactics are doing all they can to spin the issue. If we had a demoncrat president, the folks on this board would be screaming just as loudly as the leftists are now about high gas prices.

When gas went over $1 in 1977, the equivalent in today's dollars is $3.81/gallon

Another political talking point. Why not compare to an average price or median price over a given time frame, instead of the inflation-adjusted peak?

Not that I don't care about gas prices, but I don't see it as anything to scream about, either

Save the screaming for when peak oil production hits.

72 posted on 08/07/2005 7:52:16 PM PDT by Mulder (“The spirit of resistance is so valuable, that I wish it to be always kept alive" Thomas Jefferson)
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To: o_zarkman44
Has anyone noticed the cost of shipping on goods from appliances to grocerys have gone up noticably as well?

Prices are going up on most consumer items. The reasons for this are higher energy prices (which impacts the price of virtually everything), higher raw material prices, and inflation.

I expect it to get much worse.

73 posted on 08/07/2005 7:55:28 PM PDT by Mulder (“The spirit of resistance is so valuable, that I wish it to be always kept alive" Thomas Jefferson)
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To: B Knotts
Those sound accurate, but hasn't Chinese demand fallen off recently?

Not really. Talking heads have been predicting an end to the commodity bull market brought on by a recession in China, for a couple of years now.

It hasn't happened yet.

It eventually will happen, then things will pick up again.

The idiot financial talking heads on CNBC will be patting themselves on the back for "another" prediction coming true. The smart money will see it as a buying opportunity for commodities.

74 posted on 08/07/2005 7:59:23 PM PDT by Mulder (“The spirit of resistance is so valuable, that I wish it to be always kept alive" Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Surtur
Inflation is just around the corner in my opinion

LOL! It's already here. Government says it's "only" 3%. It's really around 6% if you figure it square (according to John Williams Shadow Gov't Statistics)

Greenspan is a fool if he doesn't stop and reverse the rise of the prime rate now

He needs to stop printing money. That is what causes inflation. As for the interest rates, I expect them to keep raising them until something (probably the mortgage bubble) breaks.

The economy is barely growing as it is

The "official" GDP growth number is about 4% annually. This assumes 3% inflation. If the correct number of 6% is used, that's about a 1% growth rate.

as goes the American economy,so goes the world

Not as true as it used to be, with India and China coming on line.

Once the deflation starts, we will be looking at a severe recession bordering on a depression

I think it will go the other way. I expect a hyper-inflationary depression. Then deflation. Not the other way around.

And the last time we had a depression, it took a world war to start the economic engines up again

I expect to see resource wars (water, oil, food) in the coming decades. Unfortunately, America is not very prepared for this since our manufacturing and technological base has been outsourced.

75 posted on 08/07/2005 8:09:32 PM PDT by Mulder (“The spirit of resistance is so valuable, that I wish it to be always kept alive" Thomas Jefferson)
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To: buccaneer81
I drive a 2002 Mazda 626. 89 octane prevents the knocking I experienced using 87.

Try (many) different brands. 87 octane performance is not the same with every brand.

Do some serious research regarding alcohol in gas. For example, here in FloriDUH, gas can be sold with up to 7% alcohol added and this not be indicated at the pump. Even worse, that 7% limit applies to each kind of alcohol. Multiple alcohols would mean that a content more than 7% could be the case and you would not know it. Alcohol is a VERY poor way to increase octane. And causes other problems besides performance.

You need to determine which brands have the least alcohol (perferably none). Remember, 35 years ago, 5 cents a gallon meant something. Now it means nothing. If you have to pay 5 cents more to get less alcohol, do it. Generally, your independent discounters achieve that 5 cent edge by using alcohol.

76 posted on 08/07/2005 8:19:56 PM PDT by ChildOfThe60s (If you can remember the 60s......you weren't really there.)
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To: Mulder
Talking points nothing. When I look at my car payment, my insurance payment, and what I pay to maintain my car, gas is a pretty small percentage. I'm not going to scream about paying $5 more on a tank of gas than I did 6 years ago (which is less than 10% of what I'm paying for on my car right now considering all the other costs). If that's going to break me, I have bigger financial problems that this subject does not address. A few less visits to Mini-Mart or the local bar or local restaurants for lunch takes care of that problem easily if it were really a concern to me. Actually, our current tax situation irks me more than gas prices. This is like old people bitching about the price of apples. Don't bug me with your trivial crap.

Since I have different priorities, I guess I'm a political fanatic. Your namecalling is worthless, you have presented no argument. Gas prices aren't the problem. Your personal financial outlook/management is.

77 posted on 08/07/2005 8:27:40 PM PDT by Excuse_My_Bellicosity ("A litany of complaints is not a plan." -- G.W. Bush, regarding Sen. Kerry's lack of vision)
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To: Husker24
What are you driving, an armored Limo?

LOL

Nope. Just an old Mercedes 300D (Turbo). They built them with substance in those days.

Although the equivalent modern-day model, the E320 CDI actually is even heavier: 3835 lbs. Yet it gets 27/37 mpg thanks to the common-rail injection. I think the 2006 gets even better mileage with the new V-6, and more hp/torque.

78 posted on 08/07/2005 8:33:28 PM PDT by B Knotts
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To: Excuse_My_Bellicosity
This is like old people bitching about the price of apples. Don't bug me with your trivial crap.

Higher energy prices aren't trivial, as they generally lead to economic recessions.

Peak Oil certainly isn't trivial either.

Actually, our current tax situation irks me more than gas prices

Taxes suck, but inflation is even worse.

Gas prices aren't the problem. Your personal financial outlook/management is.

I thought it was all the "speculators" fault? Now, it's my fault too? Whatever.

Actually, I think my financial outlook is accurate. It centers around four basic concepts. 1) Gov't spends too much, and they will attempt to solve the problem by inflating our fiat currency; 2) much of the "real" wealth (industrial and technological) of the US has been outsourced; 3) we're in a secular commodities bull market, and 4) Peak Oil.

79 posted on 08/07/2005 8:39:16 PM PDT by Mulder (“The spirit of resistance is so valuable, that I wish it to be always kept alive" Thomas Jefferson)
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To: A CA Guy

Possibly. I have simply lost faith that politicians actually have the best interest of the people in mind unless they think it will help them keep power. However, an oppressively high price and a recession should be enough to drive them into action.


80 posted on 08/07/2005 8:42:00 PM PDT by mysterio
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