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In Search of Pro-Americanism
ForeignPolicy.com ^

Posted on 08/04/2005 7:05:06 AM PDT by Alex Marko

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1 posted on 08/04/2005 7:05:08 AM PDT by Alex Marko
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To: Alex Marko
They will cozy up to us again, when it is to their direct, immediate and concrete (read - $$$) benefit.
2 posted on 08/04/2005 7:14:26 AM PDT by SMARTY ("Stay together, pay the soldiers and forget everything else." Lucius Septimus Severus)
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To: Alex Marko

The masses of people in Europe who are otherwise apolitical admire the USA and George Bush.

20 years ago American cowqboys were greatly admired by the Europeans. They were the rugged individuals who fought for liberty and self-sufficiency.

The masses of Europe will support the USA, particualrly as it becomes ever more clear that the USA were the first to recognize the true nature of the Islamofascist threat.

This is the reason why the most virulant anti-American politicians in Europe have fared the worst. While Blair has done well.


3 posted on 08/04/2005 7:21:38 AM PDT by Mark Felton ("He who disdains instruction despises his own soul.")
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To: Alex Marko
Try Eastern Europe. Unlike Western Europe who has had 50 years to forger what America did for them during and after WW2, its only been about 15 for them so they still remember.
4 posted on 08/04/2005 7:41:03 AM PDT by Question_Assumptions
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To: Alex Marko
Pro-Americanism is not in vogue anymore. :(


5 posted on 08/04/2005 7:45:50 AM PDT by Graymatter
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To: Mark Felton

"...The masses of people in Europe who are otherwise apolitical admire the USA and George Bush. ..."

Not quite.

Need to make a delicate differential.

The Europeans in general, like the US. But they do not like Bush.
As long the US was one of the engine of the democratic development of the world, it was no problem.
But most of the Europeans don't like the single superpower configuration, a "get it alone" styile.
As the germans said regarding the Iraq conflict, the allies are not there to be told what to do, but to consult and act together.

The masses of Europa agrees with the general values what the USA represents, but not the methodes it try to impose on others.
Also, in Europe there is a dynamic connection with the arab/muslim world, and it not viewed so darkly as from the USA.
The people of the USA only know the muslims in connection the oil and 9-11 and so they draw their conclusion.
Europe builds on more than 1000 year of shared history, and judge them by that.

Tony Blair did not do well on the last election.
He lost a lot from the previous one.
He is lucky that his political opponents are absolute non-starters, so the brits had to choose between the bad and the worse.

For short: Being "anti-american" most of the times not really means that. It means mainly anti-war and anti-single-superpower.

And it is hard to deny that the war critics got it wrong completly. From a handful of die-hard AlQuaida in Afghanistan now we face few thousand battle-hardened terrorist who getting their "live" training in Iraq.

And if someone try to grill Sadddam over the Halabja attack, now he can smile back saying that it was a boys scout picnic compared to Falujah...


6 posted on 08/04/2005 8:05:32 AM PDT by bozot
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To: bozot
Tony Blair did not do well on the last election.

That was to do with annoyance with massive stealth taxes and Labour's general socialist elitism IMO. I certainly didn't vote for him :0)

7 posted on 08/04/2005 8:13:54 AM PDT by agere_contra
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To: bozot
And if someone try to grill Sadddam over the Halabja attack...

Not sure I follow you here. Saddam gassed 5000+ Kurds in a single day. Iranians, Syrians and ex-Baathists have killed a equally great many innocent civilians in Iraq. America has killed a small number of innocents in unavoidable collateral damage in their extremely restrained operations. The world can believe what it wants to believe, but the truth is evident. America under Bush has done the right thing in Iraq (disclaimer: I am not American).

8 posted on 08/04/2005 8:23:05 AM PDT by agere_contra
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To: bozot

"The masses of Europa agrees with the general values what the USA represents, but not the methodes it try to impose on others."

...Unless it is their own narrow self-interest like imposing democracy by force on NAZI Germany or fascist Italy or opposing (by force) Russian communists or imposing values on Bosnia or Kosovo. Then it is a-OK to impose values by force.


9 posted on 08/04/2005 8:29:29 AM PDT by Owl558 (Please excuse my spelling)
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To: Alex Marko
It's interesting to contrast the reaction of German sailors on the destroyer Lutjens with Gerhard Shroeder. The former flew the American flag in a show of solidarity with us. The latter accused the President of using the Iraq war to divert attention from our struggling economy, as Hitler had done. Meanwhile he highlighted his Anti-American stance to get reelected while the German economy struggled with sluggish growth and double-digit unemployment. To whom would the Hitler analogy better apply?

France and Germany are not "allies", period. An ally stands by you when it's not in their immediate self interest. We stood by Britain in the Falklands (albeit not very enthusiastically) and they've stood by us repeatedly when it was unpopular. Same with Australia. They are allies.

At first it appeared France opposed removing Saddam just to spite the U.S. The bribes came to light later. Germany threw in with France and lost big-time. The US is opening bases in Poland and removing troops from Germany, an economic punch they really can't afford. These two countries, with their poodle Belgium are cast by the Left as "Europe" while Poland, Romania, Bulgaria and other European countries are ignored.

We need to adopt more quickly to the Post Cold War era. Our view is that we helped rebuild those countries after WWII and defended them against the USSR so they should be grateful and supportive of us. However, that kind of relationship over a long time breeds resentment, which has since been unleashed.

Our new policy to Western Europe should be based on the way things are today, not how they were at the end of WWII. We should support Japan and India becoming permanent members of the U.N. Security Council. The next time France snubs us, we should disinter and repatriate the remains of the Americans who died liberating France. If they want to ignore the past we shouldn't cling to it. Why should a young American have to fly to France to visit her grandfather's grave? If they want the Statue of Liberty back, fine. We can create something better to replace it.

10 posted on 08/04/2005 8:39:18 AM PDT by Dilbert56
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To: bozot

"The Europeans in general, like the US. But they do not like Bush. "


That's just B.S., Europeans don't like Americans in general because it makes them feel inferior. Bush is just an excuse.


11 posted on 08/04/2005 8:41:52 AM PDT by nettuno
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To: bozot
"As long the US was one of the engine of the democratic development of the world, it was no problem. "

Are you saying that the US are no more an engine of democratic development or is it Europe that is incapable of fighting for democracy anymore?
12 posted on 08/04/2005 8:44:16 AM PDT by nettuno
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To: Dilbert56

I didn't know the Germans named a ship after Admiral Lutjens. Classy.


13 posted on 08/04/2005 8:50:42 AM PDT by PzLdr ("The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am" - Darth Vader)
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To: PzLdr
Guess he went down with the Bismark. Here's the Snopes link on the flag-flying - link.
14 posted on 08/04/2005 9:07:32 AM PDT by Dilbert56
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To: Alex Marko

Feel free to come up to Canada, but STAY THE HECK OUT OF QUEBEC!!!! That is nothing but anti-American...polls there suggest less than 8% of the population is pro-American (59% in Canada as a whole)


15 posted on 08/04/2005 9:09:08 AM PDT by Heartofsong83
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To: PzLdr

I didn't realize we built it for them either. It's a Charles F. Adams class ship.

16 posted on 08/04/2005 9:15:10 AM PDT by Dilbert56
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To: Dilbert56
Lutjens was probably Germany's "fighting Admiral". He commanded the SCHARNHORST / GNIESENAU off Norway in 1940, as well as on their cruise in early 1941 [I don't remember if he had them when they sank the RAWALPINDI]. He almost seems to have been in a state of depression for EXERCISE RHEINE. He didn't top off in Norway, kept his plans pretty much to himself, and it took CAPT. LINDEMANN to get him to open up on the HOOD.Apparently, LUTJENS felt he wasn't coming back.

Still, he was old Navy, a vocal opponent of the treatment of Jews [and a backer of RAEDER in protecting Jewish Naval officers], and my favorite Lutjens photo is from HITLER'S inspection of BISMARCK, when surrounded by everyone giving the Nazi salute [including Naval officers], Lutjens is giving HITLER a military salute.
17 posted on 08/04/2005 9:55:33 AM PDT by PzLdr ("The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am" - Darth Vader)
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To: agere_contra

...America has killed a small number of innocents in unavoidable collateral damage in their extremely restrained operations....

I guess I have to take your word for that.

The Military is extremly tight lipped about Falujah and that is not meaning transparency.
Since then, Fallujah is like a prison, extremly difficult to get in ad out.
The news what come out is less than reassuring from the use of napalm to massive civilian casualties direct from the attacks or the consequences of cut off water and electricity supply which is until today are not reestablished.

.


18 posted on 08/04/2005 10:18:29 AM PDT by bozot
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To: nettuno; Owl558; agere_contra; bozot; Admin Moderator

It is instructive to go to bozot's homepage and hit "In Forum." What we have here is a whiny, mealy-mouthed Euro-troll of the type who made Michael Moore such a great success over there. In other words, you can't spell bozot without "Z-O-T."


19 posted on 08/04/2005 11:34:37 AM PDT by rogue yam
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To: rogue yam

Zot, zot, zot... thanks for the info. It confirms what was pretty apparent. Dude is spewing the general anti-American propaganda that the lefties over there (and here) love to lap up. Another useful idiot (yawn)!


20 posted on 08/04/2005 11:55:05 AM PDT by Owl558 (Pwease pardan my speling)
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