Posted on 08/02/2005 10:24:13 AM PDT by Extremely Extreme Extremist
APPLETON (AP) - At Jokers Bar, the staff of eight has been laid off. Owner Tony Schaefer said he's now working the bar with his brother.
Schaefer is among many business owners still fuming a month after a ban on smoking at all indoor workplaces was enacted in this city.
The ban was approved by 56 percent of voters in an April 5 referendum and went into effect on July 1. Madison's similar smoking ban went into effect on the same day, although there was no referendum preceding it.
"We'll be closing up" if business doesn't improve, Schaefer said. "The sad thing is we don't even know if anyone would buy it."
Some say they have reason to fume.
Nearly three-quarters of the 64 businesses that responded to a request from the Appleton Post-Crescent reported sluggish sales in the past month, most from 10 to 40 percent lower compared with last July. Some reported sales off as much as 70 percent.
Many tavern owners in Madison have made similar complaints, and sympathetic members of the City Council have already tried once, unsuccessfully, to repeal the ban.
More than 30 tavern owners in Appleton have filed a lawsuit to repeal the ban, and the Common Council this month is expected to review a proposal that would exempt taverns and bar areas of restaurants, similar to a measure proposed statewide.
For now, sales are down 35 percent at Shark's Club Billiards Bar and Grill, owner Mitchell Roepke said.
"We're a blue-collar, working-class establishment and they're the smokers. ... I'm losing $11,000 in sales in July," Roepke said.
But Connie Olson, executive director of Community Action for Tobacco Free Living, a group that pushed for the ban, said some of the negative talk becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
"All customers hear are bartenders complaining. Who wants to hear that?" Olson said. "They have to get past this personal vendetta. Don't do that to customers. They need to promote their businesses as smoke-free."
Restaurants reported faring better than bars.
Family restaurants like Applebee's and Perkins, and upscale places like Black and Tan, where smoking had previously been allowed at the bar, saw no ill effect in their July revenues.
At The Bar in downtown Appleton, regular lunchtime diner Carl Schuh of Black Creek compared before and after.
"It's cleaner, fresher and airier," he said.
Several businesses said they were boosting advertising and offering specials to encourage customers to come back, while still lobbying officials for a reversal on the ban.
The "Dangerous" Chemical List
Acetic Acid :
Acetic Acid is the main ingredient in vinegar, It's not harmful. But if we are to ban SHS because of Acetic Acid the we must ban all restaurants/bars from using salad dressing. Acetic acid is found in wines so we would have to also ban that.
Acetone:
It may smell but it is not toxic. It is the active ingredient in nail polish remover. If it's so toxic than every women whoever changed nail colors would suffer serious health problems. Acetone is also used for things like bleaching flour and used to extract spices So if we are to ban smoking in bars because of Acetone, then we must ban them from making anything with flour, using any spices on their food or serving bread.
Ammonia :
Again stinky but not toxic, Ammonia is used for cleaning and almost every cleaning product contains it (usually they add fragrances to hide the smell). In commercial industries such as restaurants and bars plain ole ammonia is the preferred method for cleaning floors. Ammonia is also naturally produced in our body and is sweated out. If we are to ban smoking because ETS contains Ammonia than we also must ban bars/restaurants from ever cleaning their floors and we must prohibit the room temperature from ever getting to warm so people don't sweat.
Acrolein:
If we are going to ban smoking in bars because ETS contains Acrolein than we have to ban the burning of EVERYTHING!!! NO more internal combustion engines, No more fireplaces, No more Candles and NO more cooking of any food. Every organic compound in the universe that is burned releases Acrolein. And again even if you could do all your cooking "Off site" it won't matter because Acrolein gets incorporated into the food. All bars/restaurants must now only serve Raw food.
Aromatic hydrocarbons :
Same as Acrolein above, They are a class of simple similar organic compounds that are again formed when anything is burned. Burn anything you get Aromatic Hydrocarbons so again no more cooking. Anti-smoking Nazis will often list the names of the different types just to make their dangerous chemical list longer. These include Benzene, Benzaldhyde (benzene carboxaldehyde), Butadiene, Chrysene, Cyclotene, Dibenzacridine, Naphthalene, Nitrobenzene, Styrene, Toluene, Toluidine, Xylene and polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PHAs).
Aromatic hydrocarbons are most notably found in gasoline and it takes 4,695 cigarettes smoked just to equal 1 gallon of gas burned. So just the fact that cars spewing exhaust are pulling up to or just driving by the place guarantees they will be in the air. If we are going to ban smoking in bars/restaurants because ETS contains Aromatic Hydrocarbons, then we have to ban cars and trucks from ever getting anywhere near them.
Note: PHAs (Most notably Benzoapyrene) are often cited as the most potent cancer causing chemical in the world by the antismoking Nazis, which is BS. Yes it does cause cancer when megadoses are tested on mice however humans have been eating cooked food for many millenia now, so we would have evolved (or have been created if you prefer) to tolerate this stuff or we would all come down with cancer before we were 5.
Butane:
Not toxic. A simple hydrocarbon used as a fuel, and it is found in Ggsoline again. It is also found in natural gas, so if so if we are to ban smoking in bars/restaurants because of Butane, then we must ban them from frying any foods. Butane is also used as a propellant in many aerosol cans; most notably spray vegetable cooking oils like Pam and shaving cream so they must be banned, too. Damn the ozone layer lets go back to using CFCs.
Carbon Monoxide
Same as Acrolein and Aromatic Hydrocarbons above, Again the burn anything you get CO
Note: Since it is the law in most places that all businesses by law must have CO detectors, you would think if SHS produced anything approaching dangerous levels of CO those alarms would be going off like crazy.
Chloroform:
Chloroform has been found in the air from all areas of the United States and nearly all of the public drinking water supplies. Whenever water is chlorinated, chloroform forms. Swimming in swimming pools allows chloroform to be absorbed through a person's skin, so if we are going to ban smoking in bars and restaurants because of chloroform we have to ban swimming pools also. Even worse chloroform enters your body every time you take a bath or shower!!! So I guess we have to ban that too and the whole world will smell like France. Foods such as dairy products, oils/fats, vegetables beverages and bread may also contain small amounts of chloroform. Other daily exposure to chloroform comes from antibiotics, alkaloids, vitamins, flavors, lacquers, floor polishes, adhesives, artificial silk, resins, greases, gums, waxes, oils, photography ( No more pictures I guess, Oh well the antismoking Nazis are ugly people anyhow.) and dry cleaning. Foods such as dairy products, oils/fats, vegetables, bread, and beverages may also contain small amounts of chloroform.
Chloroform is also found in fire extinguishers so I guess according to Antismoking Nazi logic it would be better let the places burn down.
Cyanides:
Includes Hydrogen Cyanide, Potassium Cyanide, Sodium Cyanide and Metyl Cyanide(Acetronitrile). The first thought in anybody's mind when Cyanide is mentioned is that it is a deadly poison however that's only in very large quantities. which is good, because we are exposed to cyanide continuously from many sources including it being made in our own body by metabolic processes which results in a small quantity of cyanide always being present in human tissues. Because Cyanides by definition are a carbon molecue triple bonded to a nitrogen and the Earth's Atmosphere is 78% Nitrogen just like the Acrolein, Aromatic Hydrocarbons and Carbon Monoxide above Cyanides are also produced when anything is burned, We are also exposed to Cyanide just by breathing air and drinking water. Even just touching soil will expose you to Cyanide. Cyanide is also found in many foods like Almonds, Cassava, Cherries, Lima Beans, Sorghum and Vitamin B12 supplements.
None of this exposure to cyanides is a problem because we have an enzyme Rhodanese which is specifically made to detoxify it but if we are going to be consistant and ban SHS because of Cyanides those foods and anything with water have to be banned and because it is in the air and soil all bars/restaurants must provide their customers with Oxygen mask and require everyone to put on sterile gloves and a full body clean suit upon entering.
DDT:
A pesticide that has been banned since 1966. Tobacco growers are certainly not using this stuff anymore. However there is still trace levels of DDT left over in the soil, so any plant will pick up traces. Trace amounts of DDT have been detected in Spinach, Carrots, Sweet Potatoes, Lettuce, Celery, Potatoes,Grapefruits, Cantaloupes and Squash. So if we are to ban SHS because of DDT those fruits and vegetables must be banned also.
Dieldrin:
Just like DDT dieldrin is another pesticide that has been Banned since 1970, but trace amounts still exist in the environment today. Has been detected in Cantaloupes, Cucumbers, Potatoes, Spinach, Squash, and Watermelons again to be consistent those fruits and vegetables must be banned.
Dioxins:
Same as Acrolein, Aromatic Hydrocarbons and Carbon Monoxide above. Burn anything organic you produce Dioxins. But it should be noted that according to http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3106039.stm, it takes 220,000 cigarettes to equal the output of one 2 hour barbecue, So again forget cooking any food even outdoors.
Formaldehyde:
Most famous for it's use by embalmers to preserve dead bodies. However, if we are going to ban smoking in bars because ETS contains Formaldehyde than we must also ban alcohol because when your body breaks down alcohol the main breakdown product is Formaldehyde, which along with it being broken down in your liver, you expel an amount of it in your breath and sweat. You also produce formaldehyde for many other bodily functions which is also released in sweat/breath. I really hope these non-alcoholic, non-smoking bars/restaurants aren't in a place that is too hot or too cold because formaldehyde is used to make insulation so that must also be banned.
Heavy Metals:
Heavy Metals often sited are Aluminum, Arsenic, Cadmium, Copper, Lead, Magnesium, Mercury, Polonium-210, Silver, Titanium .
Heavy Metals that are in the above list are found in trace amounts in all soils and almost all water drinking or otherwise. Tobacco like all plants needs water and soil to grow in so any plant will contain trace amounts of heavy metals, So if we are to ban smoking in bars/restaurants because of heavy metals, then we must also ban them from serving anything with and including water. Consequently, since all plants use water to grow, all fruits and vegetables must be also banned.
Cadmium is found in significant quantities milk so we also must ban any and all dairy products. Copper, Magnesium and Zinc are necessary nutrients and are found in many foods, Why they are included in any list as being dangerous is beyond me.
Polonium-210 interestly enough is found in high concentrations in caribou meat so I guess we have to ban the Eskimos from eating it.
Hydrazine:
Most famous for being used as Rocket Fuel however it's main everyday use is it is added to boilers water to prevent corrosion So if we are to ban second hand smoke because of Hydrazine, then we must ban a bar/restaurant from installing boilers (That's OK though because of Ammonia and Formaldehyde we don't want people to sweat anyhow). Also, interestingly enough, it has been studied as an anti-cancer agent.
Indole:
I am utterly shocked when I see this listed on an antismoking Nazi dangerous chemical list, It shows they are just putting things in to make their list longer, thus look scarier. Indole is found in cruciferous plants like tobacco. Not only is Indole not dangerous it may actually be very good for you!!! It is often sold by itself as an antioxidant, estrogen blocker and anti-cancer agent!.
Isoquinoline:
This is common alkaloid found in many plants that we consume. Like Indole it is also being studied as an anticancer reagent.
Methane:
This one is almost too ridculous to even comment on. It is the simplest organic compound in the universe and it is harmless, It is found everywhere and produced by all living and dead things. If we are going to inflict heavy fines for SHS because of Methane we would also have to have heavy punishments for farting. Methane exsist in our atmosphere at a concentration of 1.72 parts per million by volume so if we are that concerned about methane, all bars and restaurants should be required to provide oxygen masks. All in all, if Methane is what we are worried about, then we simply have to ban all lifeforms living and dead.
Methanol:
Another one that is almost too ridculous to comment on. Methanol is generated in the body from the diet and natural metabolic processes. We are also exposed to methanol each day as it is continuously produced in the environment through natural vegetative processes, microbial activity and other related mechanisms. Just like Methane,e we would have to ban all lifeforms in order to avoid methanol and that includes banning ourselves because there is a constant background concentration of methanol in the human body of roughly 1-2 mg/l.
Nicotine:
Besides Tobacco Nicotine is found in many plants of the nightshade family that we consume like Cucumbers, Eggplant, Peppers, Potatoes and Tomatoes.
Nitrogen Oxides (NOx) & Acids:
Include Nitrogen Oxide, Nitrous Oxide, Nitrogen Dioxide and Nitric Acid.
Since we live on Earth and our atmosphere is made of 78% Nitrogen and 21% Oxygen it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize when you burn anything in our atmosphere you will produce NOx. NOx reacts with water and sunlight in the air to make Nitrogen acids. Often they are found in high concentrations in the air of urban areas. So if we are to ban SHS because of NOx, then no bar/restaurant can exsist in an urban area. But wait, trees are also a huge source of NOx. Yep when Ronald Reagan said trees cause pollution, he was in part talking about NOx. So the bar/restaurant can't be in the country either.
Nitrosamines:
Often cited as particularly nasty chemicals found in SHS. But again, because we live on Earth with our 78% Nitrogen atmosphere, instead of Venus, if you burn anything in our atmosphere you will produce Nitrosamines.
Nitrosamines are also found in significant concentration in Fried bacon, Cured meats, and Beer so they must be banned. Yes if we are to be consistent a bar can not serve beer. Nitrosamines are also made by your own body in gastric juices when ever you eat certain vegatables, so burping must be banned. As with other things the Anti-smoking Nazis will often list different Nitroamines separately to make their list longer; these include nitrosopyrrolidine, dimethylnitrosamine, Ethylmethylnitrosamine, Hexamine, Hexamethylenetetramine, Isoamylamine, 4-(methylnitrosamino)-1-(3-pyridyl)-1-butanone (NNK)
Propylene Glycol:
The anti-smoking Nazis have got to be kidding when they cite this one. Propylene Glycol is harmless, It's used in many if not most cosmetic products, It is also considered by the FDA to be edible and is in many processed foods like Donuts. If we are going to ban smoking in bars because ETS contains Propylene Glycol than we have to ban all customers and employees who enter a bar from ever shampooing their hair. (Just go look at the ingredients on the bottle of your shampoo).
Come on now, If Propylene Glycol is so harmful why are we allowed by the FDA to put this stuff on our head and eat it.
Pyridine:
Pyridine is used to make many different everyday products such as medicines, vitamins, food flavorings, paints, dyes. Pyridine can also be formed from the breakdown of many natural materials in the environment. Everyone is exposed to very low levels of pyridine in air, water, and food. If we are going to ban smoking in bars because ETS contains pyridine, we are also going to have to ban doctors, vitamins and food with artificial flavorings. Bars and restaurants can't paint the walls and all their curtains, napkins, and table cloths must be white only. Oh, and because Pyridine occurs naturally in the environment every bar/restaurant must provide it's customers with oxygen masks.
Again Anti-smoking Nazis will often list the names of different isomers of Pyridine (i.e. 3-hydroxypyridine, 3-vinylpyridine, 3-Cyanopyridine) just to make their dangerous chemical list longer.
Silica/Silicon:
This one is to ridiculous to comment on. We are talking about freakin SAND for Christ sake!!!!!!
Stearic Acid:
Another joke by the antismoking Nazis. Stearic acid is one of the most common fatty acid in nature and is a building block of all life on earth, There is little we can eat that doesn't contain Stearic acid. If we are to ban SHS because it contains Stearic Acid then we pretty much have to ban eating. Also stearic acid like all fatty acids is in Sebum, So if we are worried about stearic acid than every bar and restaurant must provide gloves to their employees and customers so they don't leave stearic acid traces when the touch something. Actually we have to ban ourselves since Stearic acid makes up 8% of human fat.
Turpentine:
Turpentine is commonly used as a paint thinner. If we are going to ban smoking in bars because ETS contains turpentine then of course we must ban all bars/restaurants from using or staining wood because it also releases turpentine and of course any trees (Remember Ronald Reagan talking about tree causing pollution - well this was one of the things he was talking about). Trees that are anywhere near a bars/restaurant must come down.
Urethane (Ethyl Carbamate:
Bad news, If we ban SHS in a bar because of Urethane than we also must ban the bar from serving alcohol because urethane is found in drinks made by the fermentation process which of course pretty much means all alcoholic beverages
Vinyl Chloride:
Vinyl Chloride is almost everywhere in modern life. It is used in building construction, electrical wire insulation and cables, piping, industrial and household equipment, carpet fibers and backing, windows, door frames, shades and blinds, shower curtains, furniture, flues, gutters, down spouts, waterstops, weatherstrip, flashing, moldings and it is used heavily by the rubber, paper, and glass industries. So I guess any bar/restaurant can't be build using any modern (Post 18th century) materials. Vinyl chloride also can be found in food since it is used to make many food wrapping and containers so to hell with Botulism, E. coli and salmonella, the wrapping of any food must be banned. * * * * * **********************************************
Well, what are you going to do now, bubble boy?
Umnnhh...your post is a parody of sorts, although I'm sure you're sincere.
My take on it is much more gloomy.
Somewhere along the line (in about the last 10 years) the majority of citizens in the USA began to believe that they could defy the first law of Nature: that they are all dying.
And, by God, they intend NOT to die. So we have fad diets, calorie-counting, health clubs, non-smoking campaigns (and soon, another Prohibition will show up,) ---playgrounds can't have swings or teeter-totters, the kids have more belts on them in cars than Al-Quaeda members have in courtrooms, cellphones are banned from moving vehicles,...you know the rest.
At the same time, in a stark morbid irony, the US is engaged in killing babies pre-birth and making/killing children for "medical research," (mimicking Mengele with REAL money, not Reichs-bucks,) spending billions to halt the intermediate (but not final) effects of AIDS which is CAUSED by defying Nature...
Because we killed all those children, we are desperately importing labor from all corners of the Earth, not in the least part because that labor, legal or not, will pay Social Security taxes...
The PRChinese need not spend too much on armaments.
Temperatures in the wintertime in Eugene hardly ever goes below zero because of the ocean current. Your idea of "damn cold" is probably 32 degrees.
What a shame that Earl Pitt's words do not resonate with far too many FReepers.
Thank you for the reminder of that quote.
Good grief, my FRiend - do you realize that you are going to set the gnatzies into aboslute fits with this information?
Well, actually you won't - because they won't spend a tinker's damn worth of effort to pay attention to it.
Old adage: How do you tell if a liberal/socialist/communist/CINO is lying.........His/her lips are moving!
"Why do you have to run whining and crying to the nanny state every time you see something you don't like?"
Because he is a communist. Whining and crying is what they do.
Or in the case of FR, the keyboard is posting :)
Drink up fast we're coming for the drunks next. I hate the smell of drunks, it makes everything smell like gutter vomit with a touch of urinal. When I go into a bar I want to do nothing.
How come nobody pinged ME to this thread?!
ROTFLMAO!!! So true, so true. Smoking threads sure bring out the socialism in them don't they?
Well, I was going to respond to your posting, but it looks like it's already been covered several times.
Nicely, I might add, by smokers and NON smokers.
Didn't they all do one heck of a bang up job??? Post #281 is simply magnificent! Well, done!
LOL! You weren't kidding!
Good one, Elk!
There must me another RF - cause I know I pinged you this at the fet go...............
I saw what ya did. There's 2 "g"s in my last name. I saw one on your list:
MplsSteve; Extremely Extreme Extremist; Diana in Wisconsin; Just another Joe; CSM; RandallFlag;
Oops!
;-)
BTW, ya heard from SheLion? It's been about 2 weeks.
OOPS is right...............sorry about that my FRiend.....will not happen again :)
Oh don't worry about it. I was sleeping during the good stuff anyway.
I hope your ankle's doing better.
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