Posted on 08/02/2005 10:24:13 AM PDT by Extremely Extreme Extremist
APPLETON (AP) - At Jokers Bar, the staff of eight has been laid off. Owner Tony Schaefer said he's now working the bar with his brother.
Schaefer is among many business owners still fuming a month after a ban on smoking at all indoor workplaces was enacted in this city.
The ban was approved by 56 percent of voters in an April 5 referendum and went into effect on July 1. Madison's similar smoking ban went into effect on the same day, although there was no referendum preceding it.
"We'll be closing up" if business doesn't improve, Schaefer said. "The sad thing is we don't even know if anyone would buy it."
Some say they have reason to fume.
Nearly three-quarters of the 64 businesses that responded to a request from the Appleton Post-Crescent reported sluggish sales in the past month, most from 10 to 40 percent lower compared with last July. Some reported sales off as much as 70 percent.
Many tavern owners in Madison have made similar complaints, and sympathetic members of the City Council have already tried once, unsuccessfully, to repeal the ban.
More than 30 tavern owners in Appleton have filed a lawsuit to repeal the ban, and the Common Council this month is expected to review a proposal that would exempt taverns and bar areas of restaurants, similar to a measure proposed statewide.
For now, sales are down 35 percent at Shark's Club Billiards Bar and Grill, owner Mitchell Roepke said.
"We're a blue-collar, working-class establishment and they're the smokers. ... I'm losing $11,000 in sales in July," Roepke said.
But Connie Olson, executive director of Community Action for Tobacco Free Living, a group that pushed for the ban, said some of the negative talk becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
"All customers hear are bartenders complaining. Who wants to hear that?" Olson said. "They have to get past this personal vendetta. Don't do that to customers. They need to promote their businesses as smoke-free."
Restaurants reported faring better than bars.
Family restaurants like Applebee's and Perkins, and upscale places like Black and Tan, where smoking had previously been allowed at the bar, saw no ill effect in their July revenues.
At The Bar in downtown Appleton, regular lunchtime diner Carl Schuh of Black Creek compared before and after.
"It's cleaner, fresher and airier," he said.
Several businesses said they were boosting advertising and offering specials to encourage customers to come back, while still lobbying officials for a reversal on the ban.
We've taken to blowing smoke in their faces and beating them up. /sarc (wish it wasn't sarc)
I know you're real busy right now, but when you get a chance I really would like to know your answer to the questions I posted to you. Thanks.
Chena wrote, "I asked this question earlier on this thread, MplsSteve, and would like to present it to you.
If you take "smoking" out of the equation here, and look at only the issue of private property rights, would you still believe in these sort of bans?
Do you believe that a private business owner has the right to establish and conduct his business in a way that he/she chooses to?"
You needn't give a long answer, a simple yes or no will do. :)
You didn't bother to even read the link that I posted for you. That makes it clear that you have no interest in an exchange of facts or philisophical discussion. Instead, you are only interested in rudely addressing others and making up "rights" for yourself at the expense of our Republic.
I suggest you move on.
So, now you have ESP. How extraordinary! Any conservative not concerned about private property rights in this era of invasion is either a CINO or a fool.
Your sole concern is th your so-called "right" to smoke anywhere and anytime you please...everyone else be damned.
I have extreme consideration for property owners that say, "No Smoking", in this establishment. I can fully expect to get booted if I light up.
Stop using property rights as a smokescreen (no pun intended) and defend your so-called right to bodily harm others.
Stop using your assault on my property rights as a smokescreen (no pun intended) to defend the imposition of your will upon others.
That's what this is all about.
BINGO!!!
This is excellent, just excellent. Just the kind of thoughtful, data driven debate I like to see.
Let me read it well, and if the data is robust, I will change my mind on this issue.
Well said Chena. Thanks.
If the majority of the population smoked (circa mid-60's) would you agree with the government imposing laws that required all public businesses/workplaces allow smoking?
Would you object to me starting a smoker only airline?
How about smoker only restaurants/bars?
No, it IS all about forcing your rights on non-smokers anytime and anyplace.
Admit it. Come out and admit it. You don't give a rats ass as to what anyone thinks...except for yours.
This has nothing to do about a government-nanny. That's the straw-man you like to use to justify your rudeness and lack of respect for others.
It has everything to do about you needing to understand that you have your rights...and that you don't have the right to smoke anywhere.
Deal with it. Your time is past.
BTW, I'll curse at you anytime I feel like it.
I personally got laid off from my bartending job @ the Bloomington Bennigan's in Minnesota. I've been there almost 10 years (I'm 27 right now). Just built a new house with my wife last year, and now the commies take 2500 a month out of my budget. Unbelievable.
The Mall of America is down 35'ish %, while many other bars have simply closed up shop. Layoffs, reduced hours, etc. Why?
You can't count on non-smokers for your day-in-day-out business. Percentage-wise, smokers drink more. This isn't rocket science, folks.
The good news: I'm told, however, that Hennepin county is on the verge of adding the 50-50 clause; if you sell 50% or more of your sales from liquor, NO BAN. I wonder if I can get my job back?
Luckily, I have a third job... as a local rockstar:
www.chrismillermusic.net
Capitalism- Gotta love it.
chris
The same thing would happen in the little corner of Virginia where I am!!!!!! In fact, I've seen it happen :)
Read my other posts.
Property rights is a smokscreen for smokers to push their rights on others.
That's it.
What harm is inflicted on others via secondhand smoke?
Is not the allergic reaction to shellfish or peanuts that results in death harm?
MPlsSteve, I also posted the following and would like your opinion on it:
If a bar's customer base had more non-smokers than smokers, the smoking ban would not have had such a great affect on their profits. Therefore, the customer base of most bars appears to have more smokers than non-smokers. This would indicate that a MINORITY has taken away the rights of the MAJORITY>
Others would say that the smoking ban is in place because a MAJORITY of the voters voted for it. What they fail to realize, is that it was the MINORITY, and their special interest groups, who obtained and/or bought those votes.
The fact remains that a minority, in this particular situation, has taken away the freedoms of a majority.
So MplsSteve, do you REALLY believe that this minority of Americans had the right to deny the rights of the majority? Isn't it possible that your personal bias is keeping you from seeing the bigger picture? The bigger pictures being that of PRIVATE PROPERTY RIGHTS.
Very well stated! If they were truly conservative they would understand that the OWNER of the property should have the final say on whether or not it's a smoking or non-smoking establishment.
Sorry, that's not gonna fly here. There's no reasonable comparison to be made here.
ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!
peanut and seafood allergies can kill people on the SPOT.........unlike SHS for which there is no evidence of immediate danger to anyone.
As I said - you prove with each post you have no clue what you are talking about.
He's one of my personal favorites and I reference that article multiple times on FR to address the convenient conservatives.
MplsSteve wrote, "No, it IS all about forcing your rights on non-smokers anytime and anyplace.
Admit it. Come out and admit it. You don't give a rats ass as to what anyone thinks...except for yours.
This has nothing to do about a government-nanny. That's the straw-man you like to use to justify your rudeness and lack of respect for others.
It has everything to do about you needing to understand that you have your rights...and that you don't have the right to smoke anywhere.
Deal with it. Your time is past.
BTW, I'll curse at you anytime I feel like it."
The issue on this thread is not about people being able to smoke anywhere, anytime, etc. Try to stay focused here, MplsSteve. :)
It's about PRIVATE PROPERTY RIGHTS. PRIVATE PROPERTY RIGHTS. There now, try to keep that thought in mind as you continue to post. Also, I don't believe that cursing at someone is in anyway desired, nor needed in FR discussions.
These anti smoking laws are not enacted for health reasons. If that were true the government would shut down all restaurants with all you can eat buffet.
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