Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Redesign Is Seen for Next Craft, NASA Aides Say
NYT ^ | August 2, 2005 | WILLIAM J. BROAD

Posted on 08/02/2005 8:56:13 AM PDT by jbstrick

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-80 ... 141-160 next last
To: Boundless
Has there ever been a throttleable engine on any operational spacecraft or booster other than the lunar module and the space shuttle? Can't have been many. All the Titans, Saturns etc. I am sure were on/off just like a solid.

I don't see anything inherently unsafe about riding a single SRB to space. Remember it was not the O-ring failure on the SRB that directly doomed the Challenger, rather it was the ensuing explosion of the main (liquid) fuel tank.

41 posted on 08/02/2005 9:54:47 AM PDT by Uncle Fud (Imagine the President calling fascism a "religion of peace" in 1942)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

Comment #42 Removed by Moderator

To: jbstrick
Good idea but forget about the use of an Apollo-like capsule. People forget that sea recovery isn't exactly cheap, since you need to pay for the cost of a recovery fleet to go out to fetch the capsule.

A better solution is a lifting-body spacecraft derived from the old Martin X-24A design, scaled up so it can carry up to seven astronauts into low Earth orbit (LEO). Because it dispenses with the big main engines and the cargo compartment, the lifting body can be quite small, probably light enough to be launched by Lockheed Martin Atlas V or Boeing Delta IV derivatives or the proposed launcher that uses a single Shuttle solid rocket booster. With a lifting body, the vehicle can land anywhere there is an 7,000' or longer runway, which means most of the world's commercial airports.

43 posted on 08/02/2005 9:57:53 AM PDT by RayChuang88
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: green iguana
Proposal Video here
44 posted on 08/02/2005 9:57:55 AM PDT by Paul Ross (Strict Constructionist Definition=Someone who doesn't hallucinate when reading the Constitution)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Uncle Fud

The liquid fuel engines on the Shuttle are throttleable to a degree. Upper stage engines on most large boosters can also be shut down and restarted.


45 posted on 08/02/2005 9:59:06 AM PDT by RightWhale (Withdraw from the 1967 UN Outer Space Treaty and open the Land Office)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: bobbdobbs
Also different aerodynamics would apply to a shuttle winged vehicle. So even those parameters might be relaxed in the new capsule approach.

Aerodynamics are MUCH simpler with a stacked design. I am sure the max aeroloading parameters will be relaxed.

46 posted on 08/02/2005 9:59:15 AM PDT by Paradox (John Bolton: "How am I supposed to live without U(n)".)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: tscislaw; Boundless
Why would you want to do that even with a liquid fueled booster?

With a good escape system in place there should be no reason to throttle the SRB. If you need to shut it off in flight, the mission has already failed and you will be firing the escape system anyway.

It is significant that there has never been a catastrophic SRB failure on the STS. The o-ring defect that destroyed the Challenger was catastrophic only because of its effect on adjacent systems and would not present a significant risk to the proposed manned system.

IMHO, these systems look like a solid replacement for the shuttle. They are by no means ideal, but in the world of aerospace the better is always the enemy of the good.

47 posted on 08/02/2005 9:59:16 AM PDT by jboot (Faith is not a work)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: Uncle Fud

> All the Titans, Saturns etc. I am sure were on/off
> just like a solid.

Dunno about the throttling, but the SRBs are not "on/off".
They are "on until fuel exhausted". They cannot be shut
down prior to that, and jettisoning them while still
burning at full thrust is apparently not an option.

> Remember it was not the O-ring failure on the SRB
> that directly doomed the Challenger, rather it was
> the ensuing explosion of the main (liquid) fuel tank.

Had the ET burn-thru not ocurred, the asymetric thrust
would probably have shortly caused stack loss by
exceeding the directional control provided by engine
gymballing and aero-surface deflection.


48 posted on 08/02/2005 10:00:12 AM PDT by Boundless
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

Comment #49 Removed by Moderator

To: RightWhale

I included the shuttle in my original comment. And I agree there have been plenty of restartable engines, that's not the same thing as "throttleable" in my lexicon.....


50 posted on 08/02/2005 10:01:33 AM PDT by Uncle Fud (Imagine the President calling fascism a "religion of peace" in 1942)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: bobbdobbs

They did this with the Saturn. If I recall, even the Atlas that launched John Glenn was throttled. The thrust is configured during the entire launch for optimum, and the flight path is also configured to get the maximum payload to orbit. They don't run at maximum thrust all the way.


51 posted on 08/02/2005 10:03:11 AM PDT by RightWhale (Withdraw from the 1967 UN Outer Space Treaty and open the Land Office)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

Comment #52 Removed by Moderator

To: RayChuang88
forget about the use of an Apollo-like capsule. People forget that sea recovery isn't exactly cheap

This is a land-based recovery capsule. Maybe a parasail like they envisioned for Gemini? Article says it'll land somewhere in the Western US.

53 posted on 08/02/2005 10:05:03 AM PDT by green iguana
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: Gaffer
Concentrate on moving away from this planet and looking for alloys, etc. that can stand the heat of reentry among other things....

Jimmuh Carter forbid the use of titanium on the shuttle. Aluminum is cheaper.

54 posted on 08/02/2005 10:05:21 AM PDT by null and void (Be vewwy vewwy qwiet, we're hunting wahabbits...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: Uncle Fud

Throttle is probably a misnomer. They control the rate the fuel pumps work. There are limits the pumps can be slowed to without losing the flame, but they can reduce thrust and do so. The entire launch is configured within those limits.


55 posted on 08/02/2005 10:06:15 AM PDT by RightWhale (Withdraw from the 1967 UN Outer Space Treaty and open the Land Office)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 50 | View Replies]

To: Uncle Fud

The Saturn's S-IVB upper stage was fully throttleable. I can't speak to the original Titan upper stage, but the ones flying today are, too.


56 posted on 08/02/2005 10:06:35 AM PDT by jboot (Faith is not a work)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 50 | View Replies]

To: bobbdobbs
Yeah, and that't the only thing I really don't like about a ballistic capsule, the lack of control in the landing phase.

Google "Kliper" for a Russian alternative that I think makes sense.

57 posted on 08/02/2005 10:11:06 AM PDT by Uncle Fud (Imagine the President calling fascism a "religion of peace" in 1942)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 52 | View Replies]

To: null and void
Jimmuh Carter forbid the use of titanium on the shuttle

Why did he do that?

58 posted on 08/02/2005 10:12:39 AM PDT by RightWhale (Withdraw from the 1967 UN Outer Space Treaty and open the Land Office)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 54 | View Replies]

To: green iguana
Maybe a parasail like they envisioned for Gemini?

That was an interesting idea but it took too long to develop and by the time the bugs were worked out the Gemini program had ended. Also, a capsule with a parasail lacks the cross-range capability of a true lifting body design, which means control of the spacecraft after re-entry is a bit limited. I'd rather have a true lifting body vehicle, which means after re-entry the flight crew can land plus or minus 500 miles from the intended touchdown point; for example, a lifting body intended to land at Edwards AFB could land as far south as Miramar Marine Corps Air Base and as far north as Beale AFB.

59 posted on 08/02/2005 10:14:50 AM PDT by RayChuang88
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 53 | View Replies]

To: Boundless
solids can't be throttled or shut down

Actually it's done all the time. They blow a hole in the end opposite the nozzle. It's done with the shuttle's SRBs, and with solid stages on ICBMs as well as other space lauch vehicles.

Still I too don't care for the exclusive use of solids, especially ones as large as the Shuttle SRBs, on manned vehicles.

60 posted on 08/02/2005 10:14:53 AM PDT by El Gato
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-80 ... 141-160 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson