Natalee Holloway - Case Discussion Extended Thread 12

Previous Thread

Blond, hmmm.
I have yet to hear where OJ was at the time :-)

Anyway, Aruba tourism must be taking a huge hit.

Cruise ships need to be next, as their handling of
on-board crimes is an utter joke compared to even
Aruba.

AP Image A volunteer member of Texas EquuSearch leads her dog during search for Natalee Holloway on the island of Aruba.

Holloway's Dad Skeptical Of Witness' Account

Search Of Landfill In Aruba Turns Up Nothing

UPDATED: 8:28 pm CDT August 1, 2005

ORANJESTAD, Aruba -- Natalee Holloway's dad said he isn't sure he believes a witness account that the girl's body may have been dumped at an Aruban landfill.

Volunteers have been searching the site for several days, based on a man's claim that he saw men covering up a woman's body when he went to drop off some trash.

The Alabama teen's father said he spoke with the witness and isn't sure the story is believable. Dave Holloway said he's kind of mixed about it but wonders what would happen if the witness is speaking the truth.

An Aruban police spokesman said the landfill was searched after Holloway's May 30 disappearance based on a tip. Nothing was found then.

Meanwhile, Monday's planned landfill search by volunteers was postponed because crews were waiting for heavy equipment.

Holloway's mother, meanwhile, has left Aruba for the first time since soon after her daughter disappeared. An uncle said Beth Holloway Twitty plans to return to the Caribbean island "very soon" to keep up the focus on the search.

A Dutch teenager remains the only person in custody as a suspect in the case.

I have a friend that was on the ship where the guy went missing on his honeymoon a couple of weeks ago. She said there were rumors of two rapes on the cruise also.

So are we going to start blaming cruise lines for the irresponsible behavior of their guests? Does personal responsibility ever enter into the equation? Sorry, but I've never felt preyed upon or unsafe on any cruise ship. But then, I don;t get drunk on my ass and take up with passengers or crew who ARE TOTAL STRANGERS!

Hello?

Good grief, there is a common thread to these incidents.

There was something about a rape during that cruise mentioned on Bill O'Reilly show (I only saw part of his show). And it was mentioned that a group of guys maintained that in this one case it was consensual and they were let off. Outrageous.

"there is a common thread to these incidents."

Alcohol? Personal stupidity? Both?

Thanks for the ping.

I was wondering if the tip regarding the landfill was provided by a "witness" who was just picking a likely place and hoping to hit the jackpot on the reward.

Georgous pic of Natalee. Thanks TK.

I've been tabulating the different ways in which reporters pronounce Joran vander Sloot's first name. The most popular pronunciation seems to be "urine." Beth Twitty said on Fox last night that the 17 year old "Urine" had an open-ended line of credit at the casino where the legal gambling age is 18.

WHERE IS NATALEE?

I would check both. But that's just me.

CNN LARRY KING LIVE TRANSCRIPT Aired August 1, 2005

LARRY KING, HOST: Tonight, 64 days with no word of Natalee Holloway. Nothing found at the bottom of that pond, and Natalee's mom heads back home for the first time in two months, while volunteers continue searching the landfill. Will investigators get any more out of the suspect in the new round of questioning tomorrow? We've got the latest from Aruba with Natalee's father, Dave Holloway, and her uncle, Paul Reynolds. Also, T.J. Ward, the private eye her family hired. Aruban attorney Arlene Ellis-Schipper, and renowned forensic doctor Henry Lee.

The Aruba story continues to mystify, and let's get a complete update with Susan Candiotti on the scene in Miami, who has followed this from the get-go. Susan, what's new?

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Larry, first of all, we expect that tomorrow, that Joran Van Der Sloot will have to go through another round of questioning, at least by Dutch investigators. They're going to try to get more information from him when they're scheduled to meet with him tomorrow. And he'll be transferred from the prison, from the detention section there, over to the police department, where this team of specialists, behavioral specialists will go over, perhaps, old ground and start to go over some new ground if that's possible, to perhaps give it a fresh outlook and question him again.

There's been another development as well. And that is today, for the first time, police are making a public plea to ask for anyone who might have seen a pair of sneakers, tennis shoes, size 14, described as white and blue and brand new.

This is coming from Joran Van Der Sloot. Police say that during the course of the many statements that they took from him, during one of them, he told them that he may have lost that pair of sneakers the night that Natalee went missing.

You know, it's not unusual for authorities during questioning about your whereabouts that night to ask you, OK, where were you, who were you with, what were you wearing? And so it's during the course of it, I'm told, that he mentioned that he might have lost this pair of tennis shoes.

They've been looking for them since the very beginning, haven't found them. Didn't see them in the landfill, didn't see them around the pond that they looked at the other day, or around town. He claims to have lost them at the beach in the fisherman's hut area, police tell me, the night that Natalee went missing.

KING: Dave Holloway is Natalee's father. What's your latest read on this incredible story?

DAVE HOLLOWAY, NATALEE'S FATHER: Well, I don't know. You know, we've had 22 different stories from this guy, and he's going into interrogations tomorrow. I bet you that his father has already coached him today or yesterday. You know, as you're aware, he's an athlete, and his dad's a very good coach and a lawyer, or has been in the legal business for at least 22 years. And it's obvious to me that, you know, this guy, he goes through all of the interrogations, and then the next day, he meets with his father and they're coaching him to continue to stay strong. And I just hope that these -- this new set of team can get to the bottom of it.

KING: Paul Reynolds, do you believe, with your own logic, that he is somehow involved with your niece's disappearance?

PAUL REYNOLDS, NATALEE'S UNCLE: We're convinced of that. There's -- you know, the information that we have, the initial confrontation by my sister, the multiple stories that followed, and that they have admitted their involvement. They were last seen with her. We're convinced they have information. We're convinced they know what happened. And, you know, we think the clues to that are in the interrogation records that the police have, starting at the beginning of the time period in which he was missing, going forward with the interrogations after their detainment. And we just hope all that -- those pieces of the puzzle can be put together.

KING: T.J. Ward, private investigator hired by both families. Is this beginning to be like the duck story? It looks like a duck, it walks like a duck? This kid is involved?

T.J. WARD, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR: Yes, I believe so. I believe we have the right person under the microscope. I've been back on the island for about 24 hours, and we've gotten a lot of new leads that we're following up with, and hopefully, it will bring us to some new -- some new information. And I bring -- Wednesday, I have another associate joining me, Herald Phelps (ph), with the Norcross Group, who has 21 -- excuse me, 31 years of experience with the Federal Bureau of Investigation out of Miami. And he will be joining me to try to follow up with this information and leads that we have just received.

KING: Attorney Arlene Ellis-Schipper, why is law enforcement seemingly so slow in Aruba?

ARLENE ELLIS-SCHIPPER, ARUBAN ATTORNEY: Well, I don't think they're slow. It's an ongoing investigation. They have been thrown a lot of curves herein, a lot of different stories. Of course, they are bound to search in regulations on how they can approach a suspect, and they have to abide by those rules. You just cannot hang a person just to tell you a story. You have to talk to him. And, of course, now they are trying all their resources, and one of their last resources is to get expert interrogators from Holland with behavior specialists.

KING: Dr. Henry Lee, are they going to have to find a body?

DR. HENRY LEE, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: Well, they don't have to find a body, but they do need some type of physical evidence. Right now, you know, the duct tape did not pay off. Draining the pond did not pay off. Now, they start looking in the garbage dump.

The garbage dump, when I look at television, looks like they just randomly dig. When we search the garbage dump, first thing, you'll have to do some intelligence analysis, use logic, separating pile. They should look at the stuff after May 19th. Especially pay attention to May 20th, around that time, any letters, newspaper, and if we can isolate that time period, and you should sort the garbage piece by piece. Look for things (ph).

And, of course, this missing sneaker, now that is something new. Size 14. That's an unusual size, pretty large size. I don't think there's too many pair of size 14 in Aruba. And they should look for that. Some reason the disposed sneaker must have some kind of evidence on there.

KING: Susan, are authorities frustrated?

CANDIOTTI: Well, I think they're trying to be persistent. I don't know frustrated, but naturally, after this length of time, yes, they would have liked to have solved the case by then, but they tell me that they're being very methodical, trying to look at every possible angle. They have looked for these shoes at these various locations in the past, as an example. They did look at the landfill before, but they're supportive of Equusearch, if they want to go -- and they are going in there and going through the specific area that the witness thinks he thought he saw something, even though police don't think -- don't give much credibility to what that witness had to say.

Nevertheless, as I said, they're trying to, as they put it, leave no stone unturned as they try to solve this case.

KING: We'll take a break and come back with more. We'll also include your phone calls. You're watching LARRY KING LIVE. Don't go away.

KING: Now, Dave Holloway, Natalee's father, doesn't it bug you that nothing seems to have been accomplished; that it's not the biggest island in the world. Where is she?

HOLLOWAY: You know, that's what I'd like to know, Larry. And I've said it several times: If we could just find which hay stack to search, I believe we could find the needle. You know, that's been the whole problem all along is: Where do we need to search? And you know, without any clues, you know, you just have to, you know, just basically search the entire island.

KING: Arlene, while Joran is being questioned tomorrow, can his attorney be present?

ELLIS-SCHIPPER: Yes, he can. He actually, if you recall, won the case to be present at the interrogations. Yes.

KING: And under Aruban law, would rules governing any interrogation be changed if he was formally summoned to court and charged?

ELLIS-SCHIPPER: I'm sorry. I don't understand your question.

KING: OK. We're having -- I'll come back to you, Arlene. We're having a little difficulty with your mic. Let's get a call in.

Phoenix, Arizona, hello.

CALLER: Hello, Larry. I love your show. Over the weekend, Tim Miller was at the Van Der Sloot home and he said that Equusearch wants to search the well. I believe that Van Der Sloot is likely keeping the evidence and-or her body at the bottom of the well. Can we not force the Aruban government to allow us to search that well?

KING: Paul?

REYNOLDS: Requesting a search warrant for some time now. I think it's very important that Tim Miller and Equusearch go in there and look at the property. It's very suspicious to us the way that the family was confronted at their property the very first time. And, you know, it's only a logical place for us to go in there and take some special equipment.

KING: Yes. Dave, why don't you -- don't you ask them? Why can't we get in there?

HOLLOWAY: Well, we've asked those questions and you know, we've been told the police have...

KING: What do they say?

HOLLOWAY: Well, they told us the police have searched the area and have searched the area with a dog at one time. How thorough that was, you know, I'm not sure.

KING: Dr. Lee, I know you're not there and you haven't been there, but where do your suspicions travel?

LEE: Well, my suspicions, you know, they disappear after midnight. So, you probably do a geographic analysis. Look at the area. If witness say he have a car, if we look at a vehicle, any trace evidence under the carriage and wheel well, maybe give us some clue, type of sand, sedimentation, casing material; any algae material, then try to do a systematic look and search.

Obviously, his house, we should look around. And they should ask another search warrant to look at the house and if the sneaker -- if you just threw it in the water, it would float on top. So, there must be weighted to something. If still do not see the sneaker, watch to the beach. Then they should watch the tide. Which way it goes and which beech you should look for and stuff.

KING: Henry, if God forbid there were a body in the landfill and it's been two months, what would it do to it?

LEE: That's terrible, Larry. If, at two months, in that kind of hot weather, decomposition definitely going to take place. Of course, one of the witnesses saw somebody with a plastic bag and the bag contents a body.

Now, that's kind of an interesting statement. If I understand correctly, it's a black-color plastic bag. So, the witness probably won't see through. And however, the witness says they saw the body. If the body in fact in the plastic bag, even decomposed, all the remain going to be in the bag and the bag itself could be a crucial evidence. We should at least look for fingerprint.

Also, the bag we could trace to original box, which is germantal (ph) analysis and striation mark and the machine mark on the plastic bag. We can actually trace back to the box.

KING: T.J. Ward, are you optimistic about coming to an answer here? You said you discovered some new things today and you've got more evidence maybe coming tomorrow. What do you think?

WARD: Yes. We've -- well, we've gotten some new evidence that we're following up with and we're going to see if it pans out. I will say I hope we have an opportunity and we've attempted to try to do this today, to talk to the witnesses about the pond, the gardener and also the person that brought the information to the landfill.

I have my layered voice analysis equipment with me and we can sure verify enough if they are being truthful or have any additional information, if we can sit down and talk to them.

KING: Arlene, with your knowledge of Aruba, are you confident about getting answers?

ELLIS-SCHIPPER: Well, it's a mystery, really. I don't know what the prosecutor has in file, but it seems to be still very thin. They will have to find some real evidence for them to be able to summon these suspects to court. If they don't, I don't think we will see a summation to court.

KING: I know Dave and Paul only have a few minutes left. Dave, what keeps you going?

HOLLOWAY: Well, I've said this a number of times. You know, you take each day as it comes. I left Meridian, Mississippi, with a prayer with my pastor that God give us strength to get through this. And so far, so good. He has held with us. And every day, we continue to get stronger and stronger.

KING: What about you, Paul?

REYNOLDS: You know, I'm continually encouraged by the massive efforts that I see, by the volunteers and other supporters, Equusearch and the police here. There's a massive effort draining the pond. So, I don't think the intensity of the investigation has diminished at all.

In fact, I think it's increasing and people are beginning to come forward. You know, the tip line and other people, I think, are feeling more confident that it's OK to come forward with information. So, you know, we're working our way through it and we're hopeful.

KING: One more call before you guys go.

San Pedro, California. Hello.

CALLER: Hello, Larry. Thank you for taking my call.

KING: Hi. Sure.

CALLER: My question is why did Natalee's mother go back to Alabama yesterday? Because, she had said all along she would never leave until she found her.

KING: Dave, do you know why your ex-wife went back?

HOLLOWAY: I really don't know. She left Friday to take a break and she is returning, I believe, tomorrow.

KING: Thank you both very much. Dave Holloway and Paul Reynolds, I know you've got to leave us. T.J. Ward, Arlene Ellis- Schipper, Dr. Henry Lee and Susan Candiotti remain. We'll be right back with some more calls. Don't go away.

KING: We're back with T.J. Ward, the private investigator hired by the Holloway and Twitty families. Arlene Ellis-Schipper, the Aruban attorney. In New York is Dr. Henry Lee, one of the world's foremost forensic scientists. And in Miami is Susan Candiotti of CNN.

Let's take another call. La Grange Park, Illinois, hello.

CALLER: Hello. I would like to ask the Aruban attorney as to why and what political clout that this judge has that he closed his office, but still seems to be controlling all the police.

KING: Arlene?

ELLIS-SCHIPPER: Well, I don't think he's controlling the police at all. He does not have political clout. As a matter of fact, this is a Dutch man that came to Aruba some years ago.

I do not agree with you that he has any influence on this investigation, other than he can talk to his son, of course. But that was also a battle, as you'll recall. The prosecution office strongly contested his visitation rights. So I really feel they have done everything possible to prevent that.

KING: T.J., do you agree? WARD: Somewhat. I believe from the beginning, some information that I found out, that there was a connection between Van Der Straaten and Van Der Sloot, and all along from the beginning of the investigation, I thought it would have been proper for Van Der Straaten to step down from his relationship with Van Der Sloot.

KING: To Kelowna, British Columbia. Hello.

CALLER: Hello, Larry?

KING: Yeah.

CALLER: Yes, my question, sir, is for Mr. T.J. Ward, if I may.

KING: Sure.

CALLER: Can you ask Mr. Ward, from the very beginning, in the past 64 days, he mentioned very early on about those mine shafts. Can you tell me if anything is being done with respect to those mine shafts?

KING: T.J.?

WARD: Well, well, I can't answer that. I don't know what the law enforcement officials are doing. As you're well aware, the information that law enforcement has is closed to the public and is also closed to us as investigators. I was brought here by the families to do a parallel investigation and to find what information we could, and if we found any new information, to turn it over to the Aruban authorities and the FBI. So I really can't answer that honestly, to know what the Aruban authorities are doing in the course of their investigation.

KING: Susan, as a reporter, what, in all of this, is the most puzzling aspect to you?

CANDIOTTI: Well, I think in the beginning, what puzzles me is how long it took before there was a more intense look at the three young men who were last with him. But in talking with the law enforcement authorities, they insist that they were following the book, that they did things the right way. They talked to them initially. Yet don't really explain why the length of time, but they insist that they did things the proper way, and they insist that they are trying to follow through on leads as best they can.

It would seem as though they went to all these places and looked for the shoes. They went to the house. They checked out the clue at the landfill. Yet this all remains a mystery. And it is, indeed, tough when you don't have a body or any, as far as we know, any real hard evidence.

What's striking to me the most, however, is the gardener, the witness who says that he saw the three suspects in a car the night that Natalee disappeared near the racquet club, which is somewhat near the beach. So, that seems to be an interesting piece of evidence.

KING: To Telford, Pennsylvania, hello.

CALLER: Yes, hello, Larry, thank you for taking my call.

KING: Sure.

CALLER: I have two questions, actually. One is, only the father and son know where Natalee is. I don't believe the relatives of Natalee have been aggressive enough in exhausting all search warrants on the property. Can the U.S. government get involved?

KING: Can they, Arlene? Can the U.S. government get more involved than it is?

ELLIS-SCHIPPER: No. The U.S. government does not have jurisdiction. We are a sovereign country. This is a locally investigation. Everything, every aspect of this investigation and of this suspected crime is concentrated locally. It does not cross international boundaries.

So, there is no grounds for an international or a foreign government to get involved.

Neither would Aruban government be involved if an Aruban girl would be lost on U.S. territory. You can compare it to that.

KING: Dr. Lee, what puzzles you the most, forensically?

LEE: Well, forensically, this case, really, so far, no evidence. And when you don't find any physical evidence, that becomes a difficult case. Now, 67 days later, this becomes a cold case now. As a matter of fact, this -- more in this afternoon, (INAUDIBLE) to all this, (INAUDIBLE) law enforcement officer, homicide detective, they have their annual meeting here, to talk about cold cases. This cold case, now you need a little luck. To find one piece of evidence. If we can find something, can link to him or a piece of evidence, say, linked to her, somehow we can use physical evidence to develop some question to reinterview the suspect.

KING: A little bit of luck.

Thank you all very much. Dr. Lee will remain with us in the next segment, when we talk about missing at sea. We thank, earlier, Dave Holloway and Paul Reynolds, T.J. Ward, Arlene Ellis-Schipper, and, of course, our own Susan Candiotti.

mel, Have you seen this blog written by a woman who was on the ship with the couple?

http://www.tvshogal.blog

There are several entries about this cruise and someone tried to "explain" about the rapes.

I don't know, do you? After the millions of words and 'research' posted on all these threads, you'd think she'd have been found and the case wrapped up by now.

Do you think? More tail-chasing.

So, you think Natalee is missing because she was stupid?

Just wanting to clarify.

There is a lawyer who was on Cath. Crier yesterday. His theory is that both the bride and groom were drugged. He has himself handled another case very similar, except both bride and groom survived.

He believes since the groom in this missing case was such a large man, not enough drugs were given to him, he woke up while his wife was being gang-raped, and then was killed because he could identify the men, who apparently may be cruise line employees.

Sure the couple was drinking, but someone might very well have slipped drugs into their drinks to knock them out.

This lawyer, Charles Lipcon, or Lipsom, says that there was another rape on the same cruise, and that it was a young woman who was video-taped being gang-raped, the drugs they gave her made it look like she was consenting. She didn't press charges because it looked consensual on their video of the rape.

I heard someone, may have been this same lawyer, maybe someone else, say that there are 2 rapes PER month, PER ship. Big cover-up going on by the cruise lines.

After the millions of words and 'research' posted on all these threads, you'd think she'd have been found and the case wrapped up by now.

Really? From the beginning I've thought that her body was taken out to sea and that, sadly, she will never be found.

My remarks were in reference to the cruise ship cases. Thanks for asking, though.