Natalee Holloway - Case Discussion Extended Thread 12

Various News Outlets | 8/2/05

[hummingbird]

Look how vacant, dead, and evil Joran's eyes are in that picture.

Absolutely...vampire-like. What an example of wasted lives of the young in Aruba. Ol' red shirt, second from the right, seems to be throwing a gang sign. In the early pictures of Joran and his party pics, before they were taken down from the net, lots of these kids seemed to be throwing signs.

The Tempter and his earthly minions stole these souls a long time ago....IMHO.

[cajungirl]

Interesting, I wondered why the Divne Charles knew where to go that night.

[hummingbird]

Oh good ............... can he now drink and gamble?

LOL, if it wasn't so sad, beyond the sea.

And, once he is released, he'll be able to fully rejoin the darkside - will probably even be lauded by his fellow "Pimp" gangstas.

Anne Rice should write the novel/screenplay and Coppola should direct.

Aruba Gothic...

[beyond the sea]

I suppose.

[cajungirl]

It does strike me, remembering my teen years, that tall boys were highly sought after. Every girl wanted a "tall" guy to feel petite and romantic.

Joran is a handsome kid and probably had some charm, an accent, Dutch, etc. His height alone might attract girls. And he could dance, especially if drunk.

I am not defending the guy just seeing him thru the eyes of a girl who is outgoing, friendly and not suspicious. So few 18 year olds have the suspicion thing going for them.

[beyond the sea]

Boy .... have you hit it on the button!

[hummingbird]

"....Jossy admits that his crew did not check properly before presenting the picture that Jossy showed last night on Nancy Grace. They do not know what type of shoes that Joran was wearing the night Natalee went missing...."

TexKat...is Jossy "for real" here or is this just his ready answer in case anyone noticed?! There are probably so many pics of Joran at C&C with a blue plaid shirt but various shoes, Jossy's crew could have probably picked half a gazillion pics with the correct shoes, even if it wasn't the correct night.

What a piece of work this island paradise is....

[Dark Skies]

Hey HB...you are so right. Aruba is a vortex of evil. And it even trickles down to the kids.

[Froufrou]

Shhhh...don't let it out we read dime-store novels! ;o)

[beyond the sea]

He's running a nursery outside of Pittsburgh.

....... And you're running what ...... something between your nose and chin?

Settle down, kid, there is no animosity meant.

It's raining and the plants are happy, ............ and apparently our military is dropping some fine poundage in the correct places today.

Let's all just hope that Natalee will be found and come back to her family on this thread.

[hummingbird]

Beth:Feels as though she came back to Aruba with a lot more information. Beth knows definitively that it was mass confusion when everyone left C&C.

Beth & Jug talked weeks ago about having information that would be devastating/shocking when it was announced (something to that effect), do you think that was a bluff to draw someone out or to get some traction in the investigation?

I kinda' dropped out of the thread for a bit to handle my own teensy, tiny drama so I might have missed it. My situation was "drama;" Beth's situation, I cannot even imagine what to call it.

I appreciate all of your insights, TK.

[penowa]

What is "casino floor apartment" referred to in the last sentence of 2)? Does anybody know what they are talking about?

[truthluva]

You neglected to include the statistics for the 'hamlet' where Natalee lives:

Mountain Brook:
Murders are 0.00 times the national average
Forcible Rapes is 0.14 times the national average
All Violent Crimes is 0.10 times the national average

Now...let's take yet another look at the numbers at the site from which you took them...

Birmingham had 85 murders rating 4.63 times NA, 204 rapes rating 2.34 times NA....Yet Baltimore had 270 murders at 5.48 time NA, 204 (yes the same as Birmingham) but shown as 0.87 times the NA.

You want to talk about violent crime and it's impact on the human awareness you should talk raw numbers. When large numbers are manipulated to produce a certain outcome, well you can make them say just about anything you want them to say. The example is clear in comparing 204 rapes in Birmingham to 204 rapes in Baltimore. The National Average is what it is. When you compare the breakout numbers they still have to come to 100% to produce the variable. This does not.

But the suburbs are looking good on the crime front. Mountain Brook's violent crime rate is probably among the best in the nation.

I'm not sure why you are so determined to have people believe that Natalee was "street wise" enough to have been aware of the danger she obviously found herself in. Is this part of the "find anything you possibly can to disparge the victim no matter how small" process? You keep doing that and it makes no difference.

You have made the point that you want her to share the blame. That's what you do. Many others don't agree and no matter how many numbers you point out here there are valid offsets that will explain it away. That's what numbers have been used for for a very long time.

I live in a small town...I'm speaking from experience. (and for the person from Raliegh, NC...were you aware that most southerners don't really consider NC as a southern state?) Sorry, but they jsut don't. I have family who relocated to Asheville and Hendersonville...they don't really think of themselves as "in the South" anymore.

[hummingbird]

Big Jake, don't know if you are a praying man but between your link and the Natalie threads and the Threat Matrix, I'm inclined to think we've got a lot of work and a lot of praying to do.

Guess this stuff has always been around ("same as it ever was") but our eyes are more opened to it ever since AlGore invented the Internet...

[hummingbird]

Jug on Fox's H and C sounding angry. Says if things continue as they are with ALE, they(Nat's family) will be forced to start talking about what they know.

TK, that's what I was talking about in my post to you. Thanks for your post RGVTx!

Hey, are we all in Texas?! Wouldn't it be funny if we lived so close to each other that we could throw the window open and talk directly instead of burning out our keyboards!!??

"On the Internet, no one knows you are a dog..." remember that cartoon? For us, it could be "On the Internet, no one knows I take care of your dog when you are on vacation, including us." Something like that - I'll work on it!

Oh, I love the relative anonymity of the 'net....

[TexKat]

Malichi!!

[onyx]

She's likely a "cold case file" by now, but cold cases get solved sometimes. There is no statue of time limitations on murder, but I can't remember if her autopsy indicated murder. Bones were scattered as I recall.

[demkicker]

How does a story without one shred of physical evidence, no crime scene and no body continue to dominate. Just south of our border hundreds of Mexican women have been raped and murdered within a 50 mile stretch over the last two years......

I'm not going to pretend that Natalee's looks didn't play a part in driving this story. But for many of us, it goes beyond that. We see an attractive young woman with a promising future on a graduation trip to an exotic island who was the victim of a kidnapping and possibly murdered. Many parents who have kids (especially daughters) automatically became interested and concerned about Natalee. We've sympathized with her heartbroken mother, family & friends and want answers! In following the story, we've lived with the frustration of the Aruban government's pathetic investigation and are furious and feel the need to keep the pressure on the ALE to solve this crime and find Natalee.

I agree with you that there are horrible stories of murder and kidnapping going on everywhere and that many victims are not caucasion and get little or no publicity. It's not fair, but life isn't fair. The only way I can explain it is that when the media grabs hold of a story because of public interest, it sticks.... Simple as that. Same thing with Elizabeth Smart, Laci Peterson, Lori Hacking, the runaway bride, etc. It's all about human interest.

[pamlet]

Laugh... well I haven't read one of those in over 20 years.. I suspect they haven't changed much tho'..

[hummingbird]

Oh yeah, she was also the same girl who when asked if Natalee returned to the hotel that night, answered in an affirmative manner and then when pressed, said 'we will just leave it at that."

I remember that little remark...she seemed so arrogant. I wondered if she was told not to mention any more than that (might hurt the investigation) or if she was playing Miss Sophisticate, world traveler.

I remember my face flushing hot and thinking "how dare you?!" It seemed like a game to her...she didn't seem very upset for someone having lost such a close friend.

Then again, maybe she was just nervous. God bless them all; they were/are all over their paygrade on this one and actions do have consequences. Was her "we will just leave it at that" ever explained?