Valkyrie
Posted on 08/01/2005 7:21:44 PM PDT by satchmodog9
Hiroshima and Nagasaki
While most may not remember the details, they do know about that famous B-29 bomber which dropped two atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki Japan, for all practical purposes ending World War Two. The Smithsonian has completed a cosmetic restoration of the Enola Gay, the plane that dropped the bombs, and is now on display. As expected, a large sized hullabaloo has arisen over the way Harry Truman decided to end the war. Various old saws are paraded about, such as the hackneyed and untrue one that, "The Japanese had already sued for peace," "Atomic weapons shouldn't have been used," and "Unnecessary lives were lost." After 60 years, a lot of facts have been lost, buried, or conveniently forgotten. Allow me to refresh your memory.
The Japanese hadn't sued for peace at all, but were continuing the war, as if nothing had happened, vowing to kill all the POW's if they lost. As each island was captured, it was discovered that Allied prisoners had been shot, beheaded, drowned, burned, or in some other way killed in the most unmentionable atrocities. The professional hand wringers remember two dates: August 6th, 1945, when the first atomic bomb was dropped on Hiroshima, and August 9th, when a larger one was dropped on Nagasaki. Here are a few more pertinent dates, which will explain August 6th and 9th, 1945.
Even though the Jap navy had been largely sunk, air force decimated, and factories destroyed, they fought on, as if all was going well. They considered themselves to be a superior race, which could not be beaten by inferior 'white devils.' Then came the B-29 "Super Fortress." On the nights of March 9 and 10, the largest air raid in history took place over Tokyo, with 279 B-29's unloading fire bombs, totally destroying 16 square miles of that city with five million inhabitants. 63% of the commercial district, and 18% of the remaining industrial capacity was destroyed in these raids. 250,000 buildings were destroyed, and possibly as many as 100,000 killed. The flames could be seen a hundred miles at sea by the crews, as they returned to their home bases or carriers. Next month, the B-29's came back again, further destroying Tokyo. Still, the Japanese acted as if nothing had happened, continued to kill POW's, and believing Tojo's words, that all was going well. The 'white devils' were being smashed.
On May 24th and 25th, the Super Fortresses came back again, this time another record being set, with 558 planes over Tokyo, this time destroying half the city, with 56.3 miles being reduced to ashes. Still no surrender. By the end of June, 13 million Japanese were homeless, and 58 smaller cities were being hit. On July 10th, 2,000 planes were in the air over Japan. B-29's, as well as fighters were bombing everything in sight, and even dropping leaflets, giving the schedules as to what cities were next in line.
Surrender was not in the Jap lexicon. Rather than being taken prisoner or surrendering, hundreds of thousands of them committed hari-kari. On Iwo Jima, 21,000 Jap soldiers died, and on Okinawa, 70,000. The Emperor expected them to resist to the death, and they followed instructions. On July 26th, Japan was told to give up or face prompt and utter destruction. On August 1st, 836 B-29's again broke records for the largest bomb drop, and number of planes in air raid history. No reply.
Truman had enough. He knew the Japs had promised no POW would be spared, and an invasion of the mainland would cost a million lives of both the Japs and Allies. There was absolutely no reasoning with them. On August 6th, the Enola Gay (maiden name of the pilot's mother) came over Hiroshima at 31,600 feet, and dropped "Little Boy," killing perhaps 100,000. After the drop, Truman said that Japan must give up or, "Face a rain of ruin from the air, the like of which had never been seen on this earth." No reply. Three days later, on August 9th, "Fat Man" was dropped over Nagasaki, killing perhaps another 50,000. Still no surrender. Finally, on August 15th, almost a week after Nagasaki had been destroyed, and over a week after Hiroshima, the Japanese surrendered.
The Americans had warned, pleaded, begged, threatened, and done everything in their power to end the war with a civilized surrender. The Japs wouldn't give up, in spite of the Allies virtually destroying their major cities, minor cities, navy, air force, manufacturing capability, capturing their outposts, and making every possible conventional war move. It was necessary to do what was done. The Japanese would have fought to their last man, killing every prisoner they held along the way, and obliterating their nation from the face of the earth, probably thinking that in the after-life, they would receive just rewards for fighting the 'white devils.' Truman did what he had to do, and saved the most lives in the process.
The dropping of those two nuclear bombs on Japan, save at least a million lives, and shortened the war by many months. Those that choose not to recognize that America tried over and over again to get them to surrender, without success, ignore the figures as borne out by history. The death rate in the Jap POW camps was 27%, and in German ones, 4%, The Holocaust did not take place in POW camps. The Germans obeyed the Geneva Convention as best they could, and the Japs didn't even try. The Jap POW camps were so lethal, that few returning veterans would even speak of them, and most of the WW II stories and film, ignore the Jap camps, they were so brutal and death dealing. I can see no wrong in remembering and approving the final act which ended that hideous war. The true crime, was FDR getting us into it in the first place. I still will not own anything Japanese, and am glad to admit it.
The deliberate killing of civilians for any reason whatsoever, whether as a means or as an end, is gravely morally wrong.
Did the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki save the lives of thousands of US troops, and thousands of Japanese civilians as well, in the short or long run? We can't be sure of that. Using the atomic bomb to destroy a place that far fewer people but huge psychological value (e.g. the top of Mt. Fuji) might have also saved those lives. Maybe, maybe not. If we'd done it, we'd have soon found out. But the deliberate incineration of a city, together with all its innocents, cannot be justified because God forbids murder.
Furthermore, in the case of the deliberate targeting of a city as such, together with its inhabitants, the resulting deaths cannot be considered "collateral damage." This is because the deaths were not only foreseen, but intentional.
From the point of view of moral law, the deliberate killing of civilians --- whether with bullets, or conventional bombs, or knives, or nukes, or fueled-up jet airliners on a deliberate collision course --- is megabortion.
Both cities were centers for the war industry.
The US was not out to kill civilians. Both cities were legitimate targets. Hiroshima was the home of Headquarters, II Army Corps, the 5th Division and number of other units. It was one of the few cities left for bombing.
Nagaski was naval shipbuilding and repair center and had been bombed before.
Did the dropping of the bombs save lives? The Japanese still had over 2 million men ready and Allied estimates predicted Allied casualties from 200,000 to a million and the war would continue until the end of 1946.
You have the right to your opinion. All I know is that I wouldn't want to be part of the Allied invasion fleet against Japan. And I'm sure many of the people who were slated to go were glad they didn't have to invade.
Mrs. Liberty and I are going to visit the museum in Dayton this summer....
Excellent. If you like aircraft you will love it. I've been to aviation museums all of the world and nothing even comes close to this one.
Valkyrie
This is true. I have seen lists of military targets in both cities, and they didn't look insignificant to me.
Focusing on the destruction of these miltary targets would have been morally justified -- yes, even if there was quite a bit of honestly "collateral" damage. I would go so far as to say the USA was morally obliged to destroy as much of Japan's war-making capacity as possible.
However, the killing of civilians was certainly part of the U.S. strategic intention. The shock of seeing an entire city, together with its inhabitants, turned in a moment into a raging inferno, was decided upon in order to break the Japanese will to resist.
The number of casualties isn't what makes it murder. The choice of weapons (conventional or atomic) isn't what makes it murder. It's the fact that the decision-makers decided to indiscriminately kill civilians as a means to an end.
By the way, it's very much to America's credit that we DON'T do that in places like Iraq. The USA forces (as far as I know) have strained every muscle to protect civilians, even under the most desperate circumstances.
That's what constitutes the one of the main differences between the USA and the Islamo-fascists. I'd like to keep that distinction clear.
An awful lot of collateral deaths could have been justified in WWII, especially considering the phenomenal murderousness of the Axis Powers. I don't deny that.
The objection is, that the civilians killed at Hiroshima and Nagasaki were not collateral deaths. These deaths were intended, inasmuch as (1) the US chose to use indiscriminate weapons of mass destruction and (2) the US intended that the psychological effect of a butchery of such magnitude would shock the Japanese High Command.
Who can deny that the atomic bombing of Hiroshima would have been considered a dud, if (by some fluke) only the military targets had been destroyed, and the civilians remained pretty much unscathed?
We must make a distinction between killing, and murder. Killing --- and, realistically speaking, quite a lot of it --- may be justified if, at he same time, we are honestly trying to shield the civilian population as much as possible. As, in fact, we are doing in Iraq, where our military has clearly tried to minimize harm to noncombatants (even under horribly difficult circumstance.)
I salute the US military for this. This is courageous, and honorable, soldiering.
That's my point. Honorable soldiers don't target civilians. George Washington didn't target civilians. Robert E. Lee didn't target civilians.
The indiscriminate killing of civilians is, in fact, prohibited by the U.S. Uniform Code of Military Justice. It's against God's law, international law, and the law of the USA.
There were TWO B-29's involved the actual dropping of bombs...
Enola Gay on Hiroshima (bomb nicknamed "Little Boy")...
And Bock's Car over Nagasaki (bomb nicknamed "Fat Man")...
Minor error, but an error nonetheless....
Remember the race merchants feel perfectly fine calling certain groups "people of color". But if you called someone a "colored" person, you'd be accused of being a racist by those same people.
Bockscar is in the Air Force Museum, Wright-Patternson AFB, Dayton Ohio. It's not far from the bicycle shop where the Wrights worked on their airplane, and even closer to the fields where they tested "kite" versions and later flew the powered craft from.
Oh it was indeed. But major big time racists were the guys with the red meatballs on their aircraft and the rising sun flag on their ships. They considered the Chinese, Koreans, Filipinos, Vietnamese, etc, little more than monkeys to be ruled by the warrior elite (themselves). Europeans, other than Germans, they held in near total contempt, and Americans were inferior as well, and soft to boot. They learned otherwise.
An American air force general, one Frederick Anderson, rationalised the "strategic bombing" slaughter of German civilians with the comment that the policy was: "not expected in itself to shorten the war ... However, it is expected that the fact that Germany was struck all over will be passed on, from father to son, thence to grandson; that a deterrent for the initiation of future wars will definitely result."
Isn't it funny how what goes around comes around? The Germans learned the lesson all too well -- pounded into them by an America that's long forgotten its services as moral instructor to the German people. And sure enough, they declined to be a part of the current business in Iraq -- and are despised for it by the sons and grandsons of those bomber crews.
You can leave Pollyanna out of it.
IIRC, they only built two. One crashed during a photo shoot, when an F-104 probably got caught in it's wingtip vortexes and crashed into it. The other is at the USAF Museum, WPAFB, OH.
I've seen it several times, all of them while it was parked outside, and it's an impressive beastie.
What a curious thing to believe. This is the expression of a utilitarian mindset, an 18th century philosophy that reduced morality to a purely relative and pragmatic construct. Having embraced this argument, you cannot reasonably claim to be fighting for anything higher than your private self-interest.
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