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To: Fester Chugabrew
"The fact is, science operates in terms of observable, repeatable experiments to back up its claims. What happened 4.5 billion years ago ipso facto does not qualify as science, but as history and/or philosophy."

The experiments don't have to be conducted back then. Tests of the physics can be made right now. Folks that know what they're doing look at ~5Byrs ago and further. The physics are the same. Your failure to know and understand what you're talking about is the reason you're still stuck on that point and why you think it's "history, or philosophy".

" if you believe addressing Ichneumon's posts in detail makes for a paragon of scientific knowledge and practice..."

You don't know the fundamentals,

"Why should I pay attention to your response when it does not directly address the points I have made, but instead engages in ad hominem?"

You think ignorance is an ad hominum? It's not. It's simply a qualifier used to denote some low measure of knowledge. I'm ignorant regarding a lot of stuff. That's a fact, not an ad hominum. I recognize where I'm ignorant and don't argue with those that aren't on the subject.

"Tell me how educated guesses about history are collectively worthy of the name "theory.""

They are not guesses about history. The laws of physics are constant. All the evidence points to that. The laws of chemistry and physics now, are the same now as they were before and will be in the future. We can see the past and look to the future(prediction). All evidence confirms that. This is basic, fundamental stuff that you've failed to grasp.

Science holds a theory that says, "the laws of physics are sufficient to describe the world." It's a theory, because all available evedence supports it. ID holds a hypothesis that says, "the laws of physics are insufficient to describe the world." It's still a hypothesis, because there's zero evidence to support it.

1,012 posted on 08/02/2005 6:31:07 PM PDT by spunkets
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To: spunkets
The experiments don't have to be conducted back then. Tests of the physics can be made right now.

Yes. And tests of physics do well to explain the universe as we know it today. They are not necessarily reliable in determining the course of unobserved, unrecorded history, no matter how much you feel to the contrary. You say the physics are "the same." But you do not know if they were the same 10,000 years ago. You only assume as much.

You think ignorance is an ad hominum?

No. I think accusations of willful ignorance are ad hominem, such as when you asserted that I "don't even try to know to attempt understanding." The "fundamentals" you hold so dear, and declare me to be so ignorant of, involve assumptions that are not scientifically accessible. Deal with it.

The laws of physics are constant. All the evidence points to that. The laws of chemistry and physics now, are the same now as they were before and will be in the future.

I reckon you would deny Einstein a say had you lived a century before he was born. You would also say the Periodic Table of Elements is incapable of expansion. Frankly, in asserting the above, you reveal your own ignorance as to the purpose and scope of science.

But it sounds good. The laws of physics operate as they were designed, albeit to a lesser degree than originally intended. That is to say they are fading, but nevertheless demonstrate order. They are certainly within the realm of scientific endeavor. Evolutionism makes extrapolations that, while on the surface may be reasonable, are simply outside the realm of science. Deal with it.

1,023 posted on 08/02/2005 6:49:08 PM PDT by Fester Chugabrew
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