Let's Have No More Monkey Trials - To teach faith as science is to undermine both

Time Magazine ^ | Monday, Aug. 01, 2005 | CHARLES KRAUTHAMMER

[Elsie]

Even the rocks cry out?

Wrong one: Jesus said that.

Perhaps Paul wrote...

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Romans 1: 20

For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

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C folks look and say,"Wow! God did this!"

E folks look and say,"HOW! did god do this?"

[Elsie]

Today's Christians are against science.

A broad brush.

You are wrong.

[Gumlegs]

Ya craaaaaaazy!

[Elsie]

There's no such word as evolutionism. It's not in Webster's and it's not recognized as a term of science.

 

M-W online:

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Main Entry: evo·lu·tion Pronunciation: "e-v&-'lü-sh&n, "E-v&- Function: noun Etymology: Latin evolution-, evolutio unrolling, from evolvere 1 : one of a set of prescribed movements 2 a : a process of change in a certain direction : UNFOLDING b : the action or an instance of forming and giving something off : EMISSION c (1) : a process of continuous change from a lower, simpler, or worse to a higher, more complex, or better state : GROWTH (2) : a process of gradual and relatively peaceful social, political, and economic advance d : something evolved 3 : the process of working out or developing 4 a : the historical development of a biological group (as a race or species) : PHYLOGENY b : a theory that the various types of animals and plants have their origin in other preexisting types and that the distinguishable differences are due to modifications in successive generations 5 : the extraction of a mathematical root 6 : a process in which the whole universe is a progression of interrelated phenomena - evo·lu·tion·ari·ly /-sh&-"ner-&-lE/ adverb - evo·lu·tion·ary /-sh&-"ner-E/ adjective - evo·lu·tion·ism /-sh&-"ni-z&m/ noun -<---------- Oops! - evo·lu·tion·ist /-sh(&-)nist/ noun or adjective

[WildHorseCrash]

Very perspicacious. My hats off to you for your fine post.

[Elsie]

As of the time I stopped attending church when my ex-wife ran off with a guy she met there in 1979...

After my SECOND ex-wife ran off with someone, I started to church!

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The Lord has been showing me for a long time the problems I had, and with His Grace and help, I hope I'm a different person today.

[Elsie]

Finally!

A lying crevo is outted!

[Elsie]

I know, but these creationists drive me nuts with their stubborn idiocy.. its like arguing with Kindergarten kids over Toffee.

Then why are you on this thread??

It's already a given that you E folk will not change our hardened little minds, so why bother?

Do you need confirmation from fellow E believers that your position is right?

[Elsie]

SYVT bump!

[malakhi]

Reason is to the good, but it can be misapplied, especially when allied with grave personal, cultural, or moral and philosophical faults.

The same can be said of faith.

The great question of human life is what happens when we die? In the end, that is answerable in life only through faith and reason, but not the pure reason of science.

I'd say it is unanswerable at all, for those of us on this side of death. We may have faith or belief about what happens, but no knowledge.

[Elsie]

Religion has its place. Science has its place. Why insist on putting religion into science. If you fear science uncovering problems with your religion, make sure there are religious classes in schools that explain the two different worlds.

Look!

 

Science in the Bible!

Job 36

 26.  How great is God--beyond our understanding! The number of his years is past finding out.
 27.  "He draws up the drops of water, which distill as rain to the streams ;
 28.  the clouds pour down their moisture and abundant showers fall on mankind.
 29.  Who can understand how he spreads out the clouds, how he thunders from his pavilion?

[Elsie]

...there is something in the bible about bearing false witness but I have never see(N) a creo that let a little thing like sin get in his way as a "Soldier of God".

Are you related, in any way, to Dementio?

[Elsie]

...there is something in the bible about bearing false witness...

 

Yup:

 

Exodus 20: 16 "You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.

 

also...

 

Deuteronomy 5:20  "You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.

 

There's also:

 

NIV Joshua 2:1-6

 

 1.  Then Joshua son of Nun secretly sent two spies from Shittim. "Go, look over the land," he said, "especially Jericho." So they went and entered the house of a prostitute  named Rahab and stayed there.
 2.  The king of Jericho was told, "Look! Some of the Israelites have come here tonight to spy out the land."
 3.  So the king of Jericho sent this message to Rahab: "Bring out the men who came to you and entered your house, because they have come to spy out the whole land."
 4.  But the woman had taken the two men and hidden them. She said, "Yes, the men came to me, but I did not know where they had come from.
 5.  At dusk, when it was time to close the city gate, the men left. I don't know which way they went. Go after them quickly. You may catch up with them."   <-- Big, Fat LIE!!!!
 6.  (But she had taken them up to the roof and hidden them under the stalks of flax she had laid out on the roof.)

 

NIV Joshua 6:17
   The city and all that is in it are to be devoted  to the LORD. Only Rahab the prostitute  and all who are with her in her house shall be spared, because she hid the spies we sent.

 

NIV Joshua 6:23
   So the young men who had done the spying went in and brought out Rahab, her father and mother and brothers and all who belonged to her. They brought out her entire family and put them in a place outside the camp of Israel.

 

NIV Joshua 6:25
   But Joshua spared Rahab the prostitute, with her family and all who belonged to her, because she hid the men Joshua had sent as spies to Jericho--and she lives among the Israelites to this day.

 

NIV Matthew 1:1-17

 1.  A record of the genealogy of Jesus Christ the son of David, the son of Abraham:
 2.  Abraham was the father of Isaac, Isaac the father of Jacob, Jacob the father of Judah and his brothers,
 3.  Judah the father of Perez and Zerah, whose mother was Tamar, Perez the father of Hezron, Hezron the father of Ram, 
 4.  Ram the father of Amminadab, Amminadab the father of Nahshon, Nahshon the father of Salmon,
 5.  Salmon the father of Boaz, whose mother was Rahab, Boaz the father of Obed, whose mother was Ruth, Obed the father of Jesse,
 6.  and Jesse the father of King David. David was the father of Solomon, whose mother had been Uriah's wife,
 7.  Solomon the father of Rehoboam, Rehoboam the father of Abijah, Abijah the father of Asa,
 8.  Asa the father of Jehoshaphat, Jehoshaphat the father of Jehoram, Jehoram the father of Uzziah,
 9.  Uzziah the father of Jotham, Jotham the father of Ahaz, Ahaz the father of Hezekiah,
 10.  Hezekiah the father of Manasseh, Manasseh the father of Amon, Amon the father of Josiah,
 11.  and Josiah the father of Jeconiah  and his brothers at the time of the exile to Babylon.
 12.  After the exile to Babylon: Jeconiah was the father of Shealtiel, Shealtiel the father of Zerubbabel,
 13.  Zerubbabel the father of Abiud, Abiud the father of Eliakim, Eliakim the father of Azor,
 14.  Azor the father of Zadok, Zadok the father of Akim, Akim the father of Eliud,
 15.  Eliud the father of Eleazar, Eleazar the father of Matthan, Matthan the father of Jacob,
 16.  and Jacob the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
 17.  Thus there were fourteen generations in all from Abraham to David, fourteen from David to the exile to Babylon, and fourteen from the exile to the Christ.

 

NIV Hebrews 11:31
   By faith the prostitute Rahab, because she welcomed the spies, was not killed with those who were disobedient.

 

NIV James 2:25
   In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction?

[Elsie]

Slavery:

What explains it in Africa TODAY???

[Elsie]

He only promised an elect few and I think the openings are already filled.

You've been listening to them JW's again; hVEN'T YOU!?

[Elsie]

And you sir, have no idea what I think and I resent your condescending attitude.

Uh.... You just SHOWED him!

[Gumlegs]

They share a common ancestor.

[Elsie]

For you to use a completely unknown variable, assume a value and then use that assumption as solid evidence for ID evolution only underscores the sheer dishonesty of the ID evolution movement.

Translation: Someone's LYING here!

[Elsie]

Oh! The fractiousness of it all!

I want to support Bush's conservatism, but to disavow his ID ideas...

Woe is me!!

My position is that Bush is pandering to religious conservatives on a matter where, given that he's clearly not a scientist, he should remain silent or at least be consulting actual scientists who are knowledgeable in the subject (and given the statement he made, he clearly did not).

[Elsie]

I got confused...

HMmmm....