Deputy Shot When Jacket Toggle Tangles With Trigger(update on Salem Deputy)

KOIN ^ | 7/29/2005 | KOIN

[supercat]

When carrying the 1911...in unhappy places, we ALWAYS racked to charge the chamber, thumb safety UP to the ENGAGED position and hammer pulled to full cock position, in THAT ORDER!

Racking the slide will cause the hammer to stay back. If it didn't, you wouldn't be able to engage the safety because the 1911's safety can only be engaged with the hammer cocked.

[supercat]

How many pounds of pressure are required to fire a standard Glock? How many pounds of pressure are required to fire a typical 1911?

The pressure required for the Glock is not much different from a typical semi-auto. The amount of travel required for the first shot, however, is considerably longer. What makes the Glock unique is that the trigger need not be fully released for follow-on shots; if it's not fully released, the trigger distance required for such shots is much shorter than for the initial shot.

[river rat]

Yep, I was already busted on the screw up...
I was up way to late that night for an old fart....
The adult beverages had nothing to do with it...

Semper Fi

[Travis McGee]

Right, but this story is about first shot ND potential of Glocks. It's my contention that a 1911 with the hammer back, safety off, grip safety pinned.....is equally as safe as a standard Glock.

Neither gun will go off if nothing touches the trigger....

But I sure ain't carrying a 1911 that way.

Nor ANY Glock with a 5 or 6 pound trigger.

[planekT]

Another example of someone coming down with "glock leg"... LOL.

[supercat]

Right, but this story is about first shot ND potential of Glocks. It's my contention that a 1911 with the hammer back, safety off, grip safety pinned.....is equally as safe as a standard Glock.

Try dry-firing a Glock with your finger outside the trigger guard except slightly bowed back so the inside of your last knuckle brushes the trigger. Can't be done.

Now try firing a 1911 that way.

[meyer]

As one who owns a couple of Glocks and a 1911 or two, I have to say two things - first, I'd not carry the Glock with one in the tube UNLESS I had a good holster with a properly shrouded and guarded trigger. The holster is part of the safety. Likewise, I wouldn't carry my 1911 cocked if it wasn't locked.

All that said, my usual carry piece is a Colt Detective Special with +P rounds. I carry a speedloader for those heavy days.

I can see what happened here as feasable, even with a revolver, if the gun was holstered carelessly with the jacket pull in the trigger guard. And if you holster and unholster your gun daily, the force of habit can eventually allow you to become complacent, and less cognizant of safety.

[Atlas Sneezed]

No retention holster or any holster that I know of except maybe an Uncle Mike has room for a "toggle" to work its way into it.

---

Agreed. This sounds like BS.

[Eaker]

And if you holster and unholster your gun daily, the force of habit can eventually allow you to become complacent, and less cognizant of safety.

I carry everyday. I am never complacent about my weapon. I have left my home in the morning without my cell phone and my lunch, never without my weapon.

I forget things and leave them in my vehicle. Never my weapon.

I am not disagreeing with you. I think it is a matter of training.

[Eaker]

I also think policemen should be allowed to have a weapon they choose personally, not a single, standard department issued weapon for all officers...

Standard issue weapons that are chosen for tactical, not PC or political reasons make sense.

My Glock magazine will not fit into a revolver. Plus every officer is trained on that weapon and is not looking for the 35 safeties that wieners want on their weapons.

[andyk]

Hammer forward on a 1911 won't do a thing, but click...

Hammer forward on a chambered round will allow the first shot to be fired in DA.

[andyk]

Hey buddy, you really think a Glock has a DA trigger? Really? You are some gun whiz, you know it?

The pull on it is closer to DA than SA, IMHO. I specifically stated in post 27 that the Glock is NOT DA.

Boy, you really do know your guns!

Well, I know that it's a heck of a lot easier to pull the trigger on a 1911 in SA (hammer back) than in DA, with the hammer forward. Certainly you're not disagreeing with that.

And yes, carrying a Glock with a round up the spout is (safety-wise) about as safe as carrying a 1911 (BTW, they are SA) with the hammer back over a live round, safety off, and the grip safety pinned.

The SA pull of a 1911 is definitely less than the trigger on a Glock, whether you want to compare force or work. I think the Glock is safer in this comparison, but no one I know would carry a 1911 in this manner.

Both a standard Glock and a standard 1911 will let off within a pound of five pounds of pressure being put on the trigger. Only that 1911 has a couple of safeties.....that are not on the trigger!

I have to assume you're referring to a SA pull on a 1911 being five pounds. If that's true, then the work required on a glock is much more, because the trigger goes through more distance than a 1911 trigger when the hammer is back.

Now, tell me how it would be perfectly safe to carry a locked and cocked 1911, safety off, no grip safety.

I certainly wouldn't do it.