Posted on 07/27/2005 5:01:35 PM PDT by Indy Pendance
BOWLING GREEN, Va. (AP) - The four men electrocuted while pitching a dining tent at the Boy Scout Jamboree had ignored scouting teachings by putting the tent under a power line, a spokesman said Wednesday.
The Scout leaders also had taken the "somewhat unusual" step of hiring a contractor to help with the task, Scouts spokesman Gregg Shields said.
"Boy Scouts are taught not to put their tents under trees or under power lines. I don't know what happened in that case," Shields said.
The four leaders killed Monday were to be remembered Wednesday at a memorial to be attended by President Bush, but the evening's events were canceled because of the threat of severe thunderstorms and strong wind. Instead, Bush is scheduled to visit the Jamboree on Thursday.
The Jamboree has drawn more than 40,000 Scouting enthusiasts from around the world to Fort A.P. Hill, about an hour south of the nation's capital.
Some Scouts witnessed the deaths of the leaders as the large pole at the center of a large, white dining tent came into contact with power lines. Screams rang out as the tent caught fire and the men burned.
An investigation into the accident is incomplete.
While power lines crisscross the Jamboree's 7,000 acres, the leaders of Western Alaskan Troops 711 and 713 had ample room to erect a tent out of range of overhanging limbs and power lines.
The Jamboree is divided into subcamps, each of which is responsible for putting up a mess tent for what could be the hundreds of Scouts in their division. Shields said he did not know if Scouting has a specific policy regarding the proximity of tents to power lines, and he could not identify the contractor hired by the Alaska troop.
Flags flew at half-staff near the shooting range Wednesday, but otherwise it appeared to be business as usual as sweaty Scouts walked under the blazing sun to various activities.
"When I heard it, I felt, 'Wow this stuff really does happen,'" said Alex Howland, 12, of Morris, N.Y.
Cameron Ogilvie, 15, of York, Pa., said he heard of the deaths from his bus driver as he was riding back to his campsite.
"It shocked all of the boys on the bus hard. We all just got quiet," he said.
Scoutmaster Brad Mohr, 51, of Pasadena, Calif, said an announcement after the accident informed leaders not to use tent poles in excess of 6 feet.
"Sometimes you're too close to things and you can't see them and all of a sudden you realize that you're actually (in) danger," Mohr said.
Those killed were Michael J. Shibe, 49, Mike Lacroix, 42, and Ronald H. Bitzer, 58, all of Anchorage, Alaska; and Scott Edward Powell, 57, who had recently moved from Anchorage to Perrysville, Ohio. Shibe had two sons at the Jamboree and Lacroix had one.
Three adults were injured, and one returned to the Jamboree after being released from the hospital.
RIP--this is so sad---but my first reaction was why are they pitching a tent under or near, power lines? I didn't need my 25 years of Girl Scout training to know that---just common sense.
Negative examples do work. It is just too bad the cost so very dearly.
Low hot wires are covered in a plastic/rubber casing. Hot wires are always really high out of the reach of anything 4 men could lift. I just don't get it.
Why no tents under trees?
Probably due to lightning - it will go for the highest thing around. So the tree would act like a lightning rod.
Why no tents under trees?
Lightening strikes. And high wind can bring a tree or large branches down. A huge white pine in our backyard ended up on top of our garage last summer.
Just a guess, but it could have been a temporary power line put up for the Jamoboree. So it might have been hanging lower than a normal line.
As a fan of the Boy Scouts and an Alaskan too, we are all mourning the loss of these fine men. Just too sad for words.
On a side note, the raising of a tent being against Scout safety teachings is one error. If I'm correct, another error has been made by flying the flag at half mast. I assume the flag that has been referred to in this and other articles is the U. S. flag.
If so, I believe that this has been another error. I'm not saying that these men don't deserve to have the flag flown at half mast. I'm merely pointing out that there are protocols for this.
"Flags can only be flown at half-mast to represent the death of an important government official. In order to fly it half-mast for any other reason, the President must give his approval."
Please correct me if I'm wrong. I thought of this because of a discussion I had with someone a few years ago about this and did some research to learn more.
I'm a forester for a rural electric cooperative. People don't look up. It's often as simple as that. I've heard many times "I didn't even know there was a line there until you cut it out."
Like somebody else said, it's a lesson learned at a very dear price.
A half mast flag can be ordered by a local government, county government, state gvt or the Pres. It must be for a specific period of time and ratified by the majority of the governing body, except the Pres.
Certainly there are protocols for "official" flags. But when you own the flag, you can pretty much fly it whatever way you wish. And as long as it's not disrespectful to the flag, there shouldn't be any objection to it.
Please save me from purists.
If it weren't for the four dead, this would be a funny line.
Thanks for the info. :)
"Certainly there are protocols for "official" flags. But when you own the flag, you can pretty much fly it whatever way you wish. And as long as it's not disrespectful to the flag, there shouldn't be any objection to it.
Please save me from purists."
Consider yourself saved. ;) I'm not a purist, just like to learn things. I had quite a conversation with someone a few years ago. I can't remember the details except that they were upset that their town was flying it's flag at half-mast due to the death of a local who was well-loved and respected. He was a Vietnam vet and seemed to know his flag protocol so well that I was actually embarrassed at what I didn't know. Guess I still don't quite understand the "protocol" yet. I've read and heard conflicting things now.
I know we're supposed to also only fly the flag at night if there is a light shining on it. Well, we couldn't put a light out where our flag is waving but that flag has been flying out there ever since 9/11. Had to put it far out on the edge of our place or no one would see it. We replaced it when it became tattered which was around the same time our son was sent to Iraq.
Go to the American Legion website. As you may know, the Legion is big on flag respect and protocol. I think just about any question you might have will be answered by the Legion.
I can't believe I didn't think of that! That's the perfect place for my questions. Many in my family are members of the American Legion, including my son. Thanks for the great advice. :)
Lightning doesn't necessarily go the the "highest thing around", although it is certainly wise not to be that highest thing around. Lightning is very unpredictable.
About 3 years ago, our neighbor's house and barn got struck by lightning. They are down in a hollow and might more properly be thought of as "the lowest thing around". Less than a mile up the road, my place is at least 200' higher in elevation. Yet they got struck and we didn't. Go figure.
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