Updated: 10:29 a.m. ET July 26, 2005
Guest: Arlene Ellis-Schipper, Don Clark, Steve Emerson, Charles Shoebridge, Gil Alba, Erin Runnion, Adriana Gardella
LISA DANIELS, GUEST HOST: Coming up, a possible break in the Natalee Holloway case. A new witness says he knows where to find Natalee's body.
DANIELS (voice-over): And key suspects in the investigation go to court to get the FBI off their case after Aruba's prime minister orders local authorities to tell the feds everything they know.
DANIELS: Hi everyone. I'm Lisa Daniels. Dan is off tonight.
First up on the docket, NBC News has learned that a potential new witness has come forward in the Natalee Holloway case who may have information about the whereabouts of the Alabama teen who disappeared almost two months ago. This after the Aruban prime minister on Friday urged prosecutors there to give the FBI—quote—“complete access to the files in the case”, prompting outrage from the lawyers of some of the suspects.
NBC's Michelle Kosinski is in Aruba with the very latest. Michelle, fill us in.
MICHELLE KOSINSKI, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Hi Lisa. We have so much to talk about today. We have seen such extraordinary movement in this case in one day's time and it seems to be coming from all sides.
First off, we want to show you some video. We just witnessed a re-enactment involving the FBI and local authorities of a witness statement that they obtained recently. The parked car you will see is the Kalpoe brothers' car. The moving car you'll see is the witness' car. The witness claims that he was driving near the Marriott the morning Natalee disappeared and that he saw the Kalpoe brothers with Joran Van Der Sloot in that car around 3:00 in the morning.
That would be after the time the Kalpoe brothers claim they were already at home. Plus there is a second witness who has come forward who claims that he knows where Natalee's body was placed on this island. Because of these two witnesses now, EquuSearch, the team of Texas volunteer searchers is planning to step up its return to this island possibly as early as tomorrow with ground-penetrating radar and they want to search two locations now based on those witness statements.
While that goes on, Beth Holloway, Natalee's mother, has a plan of her own in the form of $1 million coming from donations from friends in the states, a reward for the safe return of her daughter. Also, today, we see four new investigators from Holland added to this case, bringing the total number of investigators to between 20 and 25. One of them, a behavior expert. Two others, experts in interrogation.
And in court today we see attorneys for the suspects go for more in the way of the legal system to try to block prosecutors from opening up their files to the FBI. In one of those cases involving Satish Kalpoe, his attorney is also trying to block the use of a DNA sample from his client. He says this is not a matter of trying to hide any information, but he wants to make sure that things proceed legally in this investigation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID KOCK, SATISH KALPOE'S ATTORNEY: (INAUDIBLE) we have rules and we have to follow the rules. I have to follow them and the district attorney has to follow them. It is not because we have nothing to hide. Make it open, let's check into backgrounds of everybody. I mean that is not how it is supposed to be. Today is the FBI; tomorrow it might be the Colombian police, The Venezuelan police, the Chinese police. Where is this going to end?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KOSINSKI: He claims prosecutors have not been playing by the rules in this case. That will be worked out in the courts, possibly a hearing will happen tomorrow. And what we expect to see in the next few days is EquuSearch come back and start looking in those locations based on these two new witness statements.
Back to you Lisa.
DANIELS: All right, Michelle, I'm just curious, how did we get that tape? I am surprised that we have it.
KOSINSKI: We were there while this re-enactment was going on. It involved we know the FBI, local authorities, a chopper in the sky, and both of these cars that were supposedly involved early that morning that Natalee went missing.
DANIELS: Michelle, any sense of how much faith the authorities have in the witness who says that they know where Natalee's body is?
KOSINSKI: That is coming from the second witness who came forward very recently over this weekend and that's a great question. I mean we have seen so many clues pop up in this case that may or may not be related in any way. Many of them were discounted early on.
Now witnesses are starting to come out of the woodwork. And what we see, all we know at this point is that authorities obviously are taking these very seriously. Apparently both statements have some detail to them. Of course, in the end they might turn out to be nothing. But at this point authorities, you know, authorities here, searchers are just going by what they have, and at this point that seems to be about it.
DANIELS: All right, thanks so much, Michelle. We appreciate all the developments.
And as Michelle just mentioned, attorneys representing Joran Van Der Sloot and Satish Kalpoe filed two motions today, one trying to limit the FBI's access to the case files, the other one trying to prevent the use of a DNA sample taken from one of the Kalpoe brothers.
And joining us now is Aruban attorney Arlene Ellis-Schipper. Arlene, what are these motions based on?
ARLENE ELLIS-SCHIPPER, ARUBAN ATTORNEY: Well, basically the motion that I understand, the injunction proceedings that I understand are based on the fact that the defense attorneys are of the opinion that there are no legal grounds for—to get a search party, a foreign authority involved in this case. You have to understand there is no treaty between Aruba and the United States. The FBI has no judicial power here nor jurisdiction. So I would have to agree with them that there is actually—this creates a precedence.
DANIELS: So there's absolutely no precedence for this motion. Is that correct?
ELLIS-SCHIPPER: No, no. I say there is no—this creates a precedent to work together with the FBI like this to get them involved in an investigation. The FBI, we are a sovereign county. The FBI has no jurisdiction here, so there is no legal basis why they should be involved in this case.
DANIELS: And is that pretty much the general consensus among the legal community in Aruba?
ELLIS-SCHIPPER: Well basically, we are—it is consensus. However, we look (INAUDIBLE) a little differently towards the involvement of the FBI. First of all, the involvement is on an advisory basis. So it shows goodwill of the Aruban authorities. And a lot of us, we agree with that showing of goodwill because we have confidence in our own investigators. And by opening up, you maybe get some, for once and a while, fair criticism from their colleagues, so why not. But from a defense point of view, I could agree with them that there is no legal basis.
DANIELS: But there is another motion too that we are not talking about, which is to get the DNA evidence kicked out. What do you feel about that one?
ELLIS-SCHIPPER: Well, from what I understand I just heard about that. I don't know about that motion. However, apparently the defense attorney of one of the Kalpoe brothers feels that there was no reason to take the DNA test. I have no idea what substantiates that appeal to that decision. Because that is an appeal from an order of the judge of instruction to take that DNA material.
DANIELS: Here have you a witness, Arlene, who came forward Friday saying your timeline is wrong basically to the police. The Kalpoe brothers were at a racket club. They weren't where you thought they were. Is that enough basis for hauling these guys back into police custody?
ELLIS-SCHIPPER: Well, I would say that there is—we have to take a close look at that. If indeed they have evidently deceitful declaration and if the witness that came across is credible and they can put them there at that time that it was feasible that he was driving there, I think there is quite reason to arrest them again, yes.
DANIELS: So what is your gut saying at this point? Do you think that we're going to be seeing back in police custody to answer some follow-up questions?
ELLIS-SCHIPPER: It depends. My gut feeling says that they probably will be requested to be interrogated again.
DANIELS: Yes.
ELLIS-SCHIPPER: And if they refuse there will be an order for their arrest.
DANIELS: All right, I think this case is just about to heat up again.
Arlene Ellis-Schipper thanks so much for joining me now. We appreciate it.
Now we're going to turn to former FBI special agent Don Clark with some insight. Don, let me ask you, why is the FBI involved in this case?
DON CLARK, FORMER FBI SPECIAL AGENT: Well it's very simple, Lisa. They have been asked. They have been requested to come over and give some assistance. They started off early on taking divers down, taking a lot of people down, profilers and a number of other investigators trying to assist in this case because they were invited in. That happens routinely in a number of countries, even in (INAUDIBLE) own country, the FBI may not have jurisdiction in a particular small town, a village, or some of the larger cities quite frankly depending on the crime...
DANIELS: OK...
CLARK: ... but nonetheless they come in.
DANIELS: Let me rephrase this. Do you think it is appropriate, Don, that the FBI is moving in based on one person missing in Aruba?
CLARK: I don't think whether or not it's appropriate or not is the issue. I think the issue is, is that a crime has been committed in a particular country. The person that's the victim of the crime is a United States citizen and obviously that country's authorities feel that they need some assistance in this. I think it would be wrong for the FBI to just categorically say no, we won't do anything if you've asked for some assistance. So I think it's appropriate that they're there. Yes, I do.
DANIELS: OK. Well that's another question. Is there a precedent for this in other countries, in other cases that the FBI would move in for a single person's missing case?
CLARK: Well I cannot think of a single person missing case, but I can think of a number of places and again I go back to even cities and towns in our country where the FBI has been requested to come in. Clearly, some of the larger metropolitan places, for instance, for an example, like London or some of the other cities may not be as apt to invite the FBI in because they have ample resources. But smaller places clearly some of the South American places and other places have requested that the FBI come in and assist.
DANIELS: But what gets to me is that it is all so public. The FBI is now moving in. Investigators from Holland are moving in. Is this all to sort of satisfy the public's need for something to be done? Is this a response to the family's push for something to be done?
CLARK: Well I think we've kind of generated that. People like me and others who are talking about it and talking about what the FBI is going to do, and the cameras are constantly on them all the time. So yes, it has been a lot more exposure than even some of the homegrown kidnappings and disappearances that we've had found here that go by the wayside.
So yes, this has gotten a lot of publicity and I can't attribute that one way or the other. But I can say that I don't think that publicity has anything to do with whether or not the FBI should or should not be there assisting these authorities if they are requested.
DANIELS: All right, well you're a former FBI special agent. What does the FBI do on a day-to-day basis right now? They are in Aruba. It's two months later. What do they do?
CLARK: Well I know that answer because I happen to talk to some people down—back at FBI headquarters and clearly they have people reviewing documents, re-reviewing documents. They have them looking at evidence to see, and they really do have them working with the Aruban authorities trying to figure out a strategy. Maybe there's something been left out. Are there other approaches that they can take with this? So they are working closely with them to try to determine if there is another approach to this or if they've overlooked something.
DANIELS: I'm sure the Aruban authorities love this. Here come the Americans, the FBI. We've got the Holland investigators here. How are all of these teams going to work together? You just heard this local attorney saying why is the FBI getting access to things that the Aruban authorities don't have access to. It's just unfair.
CLARK: Well I wouldn't say it's unfair. What fair is, is try to put everything you can together to solve this particular crime. Whether you think the FBI should be there or not, they are there. The crime has occurred. A disappearance or whatever may have occurred, so you try to put everything together.
I think the Aruban authorities are doing the right thing to try to draw from every bit of resources that they have to see if they can solve this crime. Defense attorneys, they've got to say what they need to say to defend their clients. But the government, the FBI was called in, and I think they have agreed to go over and once they agree to do that, then they've got to put everything forward to try to solve this crime.
DANIELS: Yes. Who cares what the defense attorneys think, right, Don?
(LAUGHTER)
CLARK: Not necessarily. I lived with them too long.
DANIELS: All right, I'm sure you have. Don Clark thanks so much.
CLARK: You bet. Thank you...
SCARBOROUGH: Now you're looking at exclusive video of an FBI reenactment that took place today after three new witnesses came forward with information that could possibly unlock the mystery of what happened to Natalee Holloway.
In a minute, we're going to be hearing from Natalee's dad, Dave, and also stepmom, Robin.
But, first, let's go to NBC Michelle Kosinski. She's, of course, in Aruba with the very latest.
Michelle, tell us about this new information, especially the one witness that stepped forward with possibly very helpful information in this investigation.
MICHELLE KOSINSKI, NBC CORRESPONDENT: All right.
We see the extraordinary reenactment happen this afternoon. FBI and local police have a chopper in the sky. They have the Kalpoe brothers' car parked in an area and this witness' car. This first witness who we're told came forward on Friday says that he was driving around the area near the Marriott Hotel and he spots the Kalpoe brothers, he says, with Joran Van Der Sloot in a car. He says this was about 3:00 a.m. the day Natalee Holloway vanished.
And this would be after the time the Kalpoe brothers said that they were already at home—Joe.
SCARBOROUGH: And, Michelle, this isn't just one witness that's come forward. I understand two others have come forward. What can you tell us about them and their stories?
KOSINSKI: Well, we have one who we're told has already talked to police who says he knows where on this island Natalee Holloway's body was placed. And then another witness, a woman, was identified today by the private investigator working for Natalee's family. She lives in the area right near where this reenactment happened, in fact.
And she says, maybe a couple days after Natalee disappeared, she sees a car fitting the description of the Kalpoes' car driving around repeatedly in that area, for whatever that is worth. But because of these witnesses, now we're going to see the volunteer searchers come back to this island as soon as possible with ground-penetrating radar. And they're going to search these two areas based on witnesses' statements.
Now, while this is going on, we see Natalee's mother today raise the reward for her safe return to a stunning level.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY, MOTHER OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY: We're going to be able to now raise the reward for the safe return of Natalee from $200,000 to $1 million. And we're just so hoping that, you know, any information that someone has or people just feel comfortable to please come forward. Still, the same applies as far as remaining anonymous.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KOSINSKI: She says that million dollars comes from donations from a group of friends in the United States—Joe.
SCARBOROUGH: And, Michelle, I understand that the reward money for Natalee's safe return may have come about because of a possible sighting or at least rumors of sightings. What did you hear from that press conference about that?
KOSINSKI: Well, we know right now there's no hard evidence of anything like that.
But there are rumors all over this island. Of course, there has been no sign of Natalee here. So, of course, people speculate maybe she was kidnapped. We know the family's private eye has also had investigators working for him down in Venezuela to that effect. And, keep in mind, right now, the family just wants to draw out any information it can.
SCARBOROUGH: Now, didn't—did—we're looking at a map right now to show where Aruba is in relation to Venezuela.
But Jug—Jug Twitty actually came out and talked about that possibility today, didn't he?
KOSINSKI: Yes, he did. He said that that's just another possibility that he wants to explore.
And the point of grief that the family is right now, they want to take any bit of information, any lead, any possibility they can, and use everything they can to fully explore it. We also got news today that four new investigators are on this case.
And here's what Jug told us today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JUG TWITTY, STEPFATHER OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY: There's been rumors out there for, you know, many weeks, that we can't find her on the island here, that she's possibly in Venezuela, Curacao, all these places. And, hopefully, this will help. You know, if she's out there, if people have information, that they can help us, you know, find her, that they will come forward. And, as Beth says, it's all anonymous.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KOSINSKI: And four more investigators from Holland got on this case today. One of them is a behavioral analyst. And two others are interrogation specialists—Joe, back to you.
SCARBOROUGH: All right, Michelle, thanks so much for that report.
I tell you what. So long after Natalee has disappeared, so much starting to finally happen in this case.
Let's bring in Natalee's dad, Dave Holloway, and her stepmom, Robin.
Dave, remarkable, For as long as Natalee has been missing, for all of this activity to start happening, it sounds like things may be possibly moving in a direction where we can get some resolution in the case. What can you tell us about your reaction and the family's reaction to today's developments?
DAVE HOLLOWAY, FATHER OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY: Well, the gardener, his statement puts them back near the north of the Marriott.
In fact, the racquet club is located less—well, probably a quarter-of-a-mile to a half-a-mile across the field from the Marriott. So, it's a short distance away. So, that kind of gives us an idea that whatever happened occurred near that area. So, it's like, where's the haystack? We can find—find the needle.
SCARBOROUGH: You know...
D. HOLLOWAY: The island is just too large to look everywhere.
SCARBOROUGH: You know, and, Dave, also, remarkable—again, these timelines. When you go through these investigations, you know, when you talk to prosecutors, they're always trying to do a timeline to figure out what happened that night. Apparently, this one witness coming forward with possibly hard information that says the Kalpoe brothers and Joran Van Der Sloot weren't being truthful, that they were out as late as 3:00 a.m. That would change the investigation, wouldn't it?
D. HOLLOWAY: That's correct. We know that they left approximately 1:00 to 1:30. And then, when they left Carlos 'n Charlie's, you know, you didn't really have any idea, based on the number of statements that he made, you know, where they ended up. And this puts us back up near that area.
SCARBOROUGH: Remarkable.
Hey, stay with us, Dave.
And, Robin, also get back with you.
Dave, let me ask you, is the FBI—we understand the FBI's getting more involved now. Are they keeping you and your family informed in what's going on in this investigation?
D. HOLLOWAY: They are. We have usually daily contact with the FBI if something develops. In fact, I spoke with them today. And they indicated that they're looking into the evidence. And it's not that they're going to do any investigative work. It's going to be simply a fact that they're going to look into it and put another set of eyes on it.
SCARBOROUGH: Are you pleased that they're allowed to get more engaged in this process?
D. HOLLOWAY: Absolutely. The more eyes you have on looking at something, maybe they'll uncover something that was missed early on. And, hopefully, that—that will be the case.
SCARBOROUGH: Robin, talk about the strain that this investigation has had. It continues on and on. Obviously, a lot of people believe the Aruban government's not doing enough—now the Aruban prime minister coming out. And it looks—again, it looks like there's starting to be outside pressure from Alabama officials and others. Do you think finally they're getting the message that we Americans aren't going to just sit back and let them cover up this case and this possible crime?
ROBIN HOLLOWAY, STEPMOTHER OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY: As far as boycotting Aruba, we don't think that's the answer. Just—I mean, Aruba, the people are just so sweet and good-hearted. And I don't think the answer is to boycott Aruba.
And we're just so grateful they're allowing the FBI be involved now. I mean, the evidence, for what we understand, is in Washington—not Washington, Virginia. And, just, you know, they have got access to that now. But it's stressful. It's a strain. It's—you know, it's -- 57 days is a long time. And, you know, we never dreamed it would go on this long. But we just—we just—we need answers soon.
SCARBOROUGH: It just—yes. It just—it does seem to continue on and on.
Dave, though, it looks like, again, the pace of this investigation finally starting to pick up.
I want to take you back, though, to what happened last week. We saw incredible footage of you talking to Paulus Van Der Sloot and actually giving him some items. Talk about that remarkable meeting.
D. HOLLOWAY: Well, we had a meeting prior to him going into the jail
to speak with his son. In fact, I went to the jail to approach Joran about
· he professes his innocence. I want him to talk to me and profess that innocence.
Afterwards, I spoke with the father and asked him if he had talked to Joran. And he indicated that, in fact, he did talk. But his father had indicated that too much time had passed and that it wouldn't be permissible for me to speak with his son. But I did question him on a number of things that had gone on, some of the things I saw on TV. And all of his responses were a negative, that he was not involved, the Kalpoe brothers were not involved, Joran was not involved, and on and on.
And, you know, we ended it with the fact that he understood my situation and that, as a father of Joran, he'd do anything to protect his son. And we...
(CROSSTALK)
SCARBOROUGH: And we understood that you gave him—gave him something. What did you give him?
D. HOLLOWAY: I gave him a Bible and one of the books that the other person had that was with me, a spiritual book, and then “The Purpose Driven Life.” It's a 40-day book that—you know, it's all about God and it's not about you and everything revolves around God.
And, hopefully, they'll read it and understand that it is all about God and not themselves. And maybe they'll get something out of it.
SCARBOROUGH: How are you and the family holding up tonight?
D. HOLLOWAY: You know, you take every day as a new day and hopefully that it will come to an end.
And, you know, you just—as I said it earlier, you know, I left Meridian with a prayer that God will give us strength to get through this. And I continue to hold on to that prayer. In fact, my pastor came over today, and we had another prayer just to reinforce it. So, we're making it. It's tough. But we'll prevail in the end.
SCARBOROUGH: All right.
Well, Dave and Robin, know that our prayers and our thoughts are with you and the entire family. Thanks a lot for being with us tonight...
R. HOLLOWAY: Thank you.
D. HOLLOWAY: Thank you.
SCARBOROUGH: ... to get us up to date with the very latest.