Posted on 07/25/2005 5:07:52 AM PDT by MadIvan
The Brazilian man shot dead by police in south London, who mistook him for a suicide bomber, had been in Britain on an out-of-date visa, officials say.
Jean Charles de Menezes, 27, may have run from police because of his visa situation, BBC correspondents say.
The electrician had come to the UK on a student visa, which allows people to work for a small number of hours.
Relatives of Mr Menezes are considering suing over the Stockwell Tube shooting, saying police will have "to pay".
Meanwhile, detectives are still hunting for the men who attempted to blow up three London Tube trains and a bus last Thursday.
Three men have been arrested so far, but it is thought the four would-be bombers are still free and may have access to explosives.
Meanwhile, Chris Fox, president of the Association of Chief Police Officers, gave his support to the Metropolitan Police's "shoot-to-kill" policy with potential suicide bombers, in the wake of Friday's shooting of Mr Menezes.
"Shoot-to-kill is very good headline but, in fact, what we have to do is have a series of tactics which range from disruption to the very, very final moment when you have to shoot and the aim is to prevent the criminal or suspect causing harm to other people," he said.
Under surveillance
However, the victim's cousin, Alex Pereira, who is based in London, said: "[The police] have to pay for [Friday's killing] in many ways, because if they do not, they are going to kill many people, they are going to kill thousands of people.
"They just kill the first person they see, that's what they did.
"They killed my cousin, they could kill anyone."
Mr Menezes was killed after fleeing armed police as he travelled to work.
He had been followed by police from his block of flats in Tulse Hill, which was under surveillance in the hunt for the group behind Thursday's attempted bombings.
Mr Menezes had boarded the number 2 bus to Stockwell.
Police said his padded jacket had heightened suspicions about his journey. He was shot as he ran on to a train.
Heavy coats or clothing are often worn by suicide bombers in other parts of the world to help them disguise their bombs.
The Independent Police Complaints Commission has opened an investigation into the circumstances surrounding the death.
In Brazil, relatives are demanding answers to why Mr Menezes ran and why he was shot by police.
Cousin Maria do Socorro, speaking before details about the visa emerged, told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "I think they acted incompetently, like amateurs.
"You would think the British police would be prepared, but they are panicking and seeing everyone as a suspect.
"If you are going to have a war on terror, you have got to use brains to fight it not just brute force."
Friends of Mr Menezes in London said he had recently returned to Brazil for eight months to be with his father, who was being treated for cancer.
'Highly trained'
Fausto Soares, 26, said Mr Menezes had been sending money to pay for the treatment and was concerned how the family would now cope financially.
Former Prime Minister Sir John Major has defended the police's actions.
Speaking on the Today programme, Sir John said: "These officers are very highly trained. Very few of them are permitted to carry arms, but in that second they had no-one to help them, no-one to turn to.
"They had to make a decision. Do we take this dreadful decision to shoot, or do we face the risk that conceivably, if our worst fears are right, a bomb could be detonated that could kill people, including them, in the next second or so?"
The same rule applies in America as in Britain. If you do what the police say, you're very unlikely to come to harm. Disobey the police at your peril.
They were worried that with the flick of a switch he would blow them all up. Once you are fairly certain that a guy is a suicide bomber... leaves house full of them, wearing heavy coat, runs from cops, gets on train,... it makes sense to shoot the guy in the head as soon as you can so that he can't detonate a bomb. A bomb where the cops have no idea how it works or how it might be detonated.
Not in Houston, it's against the rules for HPD to stop or chase people that look like they might be from South of the Border ora Muslim. Sancutary city donncha know.
During German occupation of Europe authorities would post announcement of policies and warnings for all to see. A citizen would know what behaviour could get him shot. Nowadays, we're so civilized and utterly clueless that we can't even inform the citizenry that the country is in a state of war. Let's pretend everything's normal so the stock market won't panic. This victim was running from the possibility of deportation, not execution. How was he to know? It's the gummint that's clueless not the victim!
That would be a great tag line if it wasn't so long.
What did we learn?
To run is a Brazilian instinct, ingrained after years of watching police chase down and fire all their weapons against anyone who is even the slightest suspect. Once, in a neighborhood near ours, the police thought they had some terrorists trapped in a house. They simply opened fire with machine guns, destroyed the house and two women occupants, shot several other innocents who lived nearby, but never found a single terrorist. Toll: 5 dead 12 wounded.
That was humour on my part. I have no intention of buying a bullet-proof vest. I will probably pop down to the shop later and buy some milk though. Thanks for your comments.
I agree...that is sadistic!!!! I once watched 2 weeks of Barney..24x7....sitting my young son, when my wife was out of town... I had to control my urge to strangle a small animal...or a dinosaur....
Stated like a true lawyer. Sometimes reality intrudes on the best formulated rules and procedures. During the past two weeks, Middle Eastern appearing suicide bombers had either blown up or attemped to blow up 6 Underground stations and two buses, including 4 attempts that very day. You are following a suspect coming from the same block of flats that housed the other alleged terrorists. He is wearing a padded coat and runs away into the Underground ignoring calls to stop.
The police must make a split second decision involving not only their own lives, but those of innocent bystanders. Forget ROE. Use common sense. Consider these scenarios.
(1) The police apprehend the suspect without killing him and discover that he had no bomb. The police are praised for their restraint and no one is killed or injured. (2) The police apprehend the suspect, but he successfully denotes his bomb killing the police and many bystanders. The police are praised as heroes--dead heroes. (3) The police apprehend the suspect and kill him before he can detonate his bomb. No one except the suspect is killed or injured. The police are praised for their courage and judgment.
Considering the risks and the circumstances, I want the police to act. They did act appropriately and should not be criticized for making a reasonable decision. They believed that their lives along with others were in danger and acted accordingly.
The British police are probably as well-versed in the use of firearms as their American counterparts.
If we had just had a terrorist bombing in a subway system, this incident could well have happened in a city like NY or DC.
My original comments had been an attempt at humour (I know, I know, a risky business at here at FR). I have no intention of prowling Ebay's auctions for bullet proof vests but I am intrigued by this wife beater thing. Could you enlighten me as to what that might be?
The runner punched his own ticket!
During the holidays a ring of theives were brazenly robbing at will in Houston. HPD did little to stop it. They headed back to Messico after they made their haul. Went on for about a month. I have seen up close how the HPD turns their heads the other way when a South of the Border type is involved in crime. What happened in Alabama would never be "tolerated" in the Dum stronghold of Houston.
I have to decide whether to face a charge of illegal residence or risk dying.
Let me think...
I'll get back to you.
When subways are targetted, and mass murder the usual result, it's a whole different scenario, not just a nut who "might have" a gun.
Hey, Where on earth have you been.
LOL! Uh oh! I guess it does rate as cruel and unusual.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.