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Shooting victim had expired visa
BBC News ^ | July 25, 2005 | Staff

Posted on 07/25/2005 5:07:52 AM PDT by MadIvan

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To: MadIvan

The same rule applies in America as in Britain. If you do what the police say, you're very unlikely to come to harm. Disobey the police at your peril.


161 posted on 07/25/2005 8:40:34 AM PDT by colorado tanker (The People Have Spoken)
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To: Non-Sequitur
I heard that on the news, too. Five cops tackled him, had him on the ground, and then they blow his head off. Admittedly we don't have all the facts, but that seems to be the most disturbing part in all this.

They were worried that with the flick of a switch he would blow them all up. Once you are fairly certain that a guy is a suicide bomber... leaves house full of them, wearing heavy coat, runs from cops, gets on train,... it makes sense to shoot the guy in the head as soon as you can so that he can't detonate a bomb. A bomb where the cops have no idea how it works or how it might be detonated.

162 posted on 07/25/2005 8:43:48 AM PDT by Rodney King (No, we can't all just get along.)
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To: monday

Not in Houston, it's against the rules for HPD to stop or chase people that look like they might be from South of the Border ora Muslim. Sancutary city donncha know.


163 posted on 07/25/2005 8:44:03 AM PDT by marty60
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To: MadIvan

During German occupation of Europe authorities would post announcement of policies and warnings for all to see. A citizen would know what behaviour could get him shot. Nowadays, we're so civilized and utterly clueless that we can't even inform the citizenry that the country is in a state of war. Let's pretend everything's normal so the stock market won't panic. This victim was running from the possibility of deportation, not execution. How was he to know? It's the gummint that's clueless not the victim!


164 posted on 07/25/2005 8:44:29 AM PDT by Revolting cat! ("In the end, nothing explains anything!")
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To: Clive
The retrospectroscope is a marvellous instrument. It enables much clearer thinking about what you would have done had you had all that after-the-fact knowledge and several days instead of mere seconds to comtemplate the appropriate response.

That would be a great tag line if it wasn't so long.

165 posted on 07/25/2005 8:45:06 AM PDT by null and void (Be vewwy vewwy qwiet, we're hunting wahabbits...)
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To: MadIvan

What did we learn?


166 posted on 07/25/2005 8:45:36 AM PDT by numberonepal (Don't Even Think About Treading On Me)
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To: MadIvan

To run is a Brazilian instinct, ingrained after years of watching police chase down and fire all their weapons against anyone who is even the slightest suspect. Once, in a neighborhood near ours, the police thought they had some terrorists trapped in a house. They simply opened fire with machine guns, destroyed the house and two women occupants, shot several other innocents who lived nearby, but never found a single terrorist. Toll: 5 dead 12 wounded.


167 posted on 07/25/2005 8:51:11 AM PDT by Paulus Invictus
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To: lOKKI

That was humour on my part. I have no intention of buying a bullet-proof vest. I will probably pop down to the shop later and buy some milk though. Thanks for your comments.


168 posted on 07/25/2005 8:56:09 AM PDT by Prodigal Son
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To: saveliberty
we would have a big scandal for arresting him as it would come out that he would have had to listen to Barney and Sesame Street while incarcerated.

I agree...that is sadistic!!!! I once watched 2 weeks of Barney..24x7....sitting my young son, when my wife was out of town... I had to control my urge to strangle a small animal...or a dinosaur....

169 posted on 07/25/2005 8:57:38 AM PDT by cbkaty (I may not always post...but I am always here......)
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To: Brilliant
Maybe it's just because I'm a lawyer, but I'd be curious to know what their rules of engagement are, and whether they violated them. I don't think this would pass muster under the US rules of engagement. Maybe there is just something wrong with their rules of engagement.

Stated like a true lawyer. Sometimes reality intrudes on the best formulated rules and procedures. During the past two weeks, Middle Eastern appearing suicide bombers had either blown up or attemped to blow up 6 Underground stations and two buses, including 4 attempts that very day. You are following a suspect coming from the same block of flats that housed the other alleged terrorists. He is wearing a padded coat and runs away into the Underground ignoring calls to stop.

The police must make a split second decision involving not only their own lives, but those of innocent bystanders. Forget ROE. Use common sense. Consider these scenarios.

(1) The police apprehend the suspect without killing him and discover that he had no bomb. The police are praised for their restraint and no one is killed or injured. (2) The police apprehend the suspect, but he successfully denotes his bomb killing the police and many bystanders. The police are praised as heroes--dead heroes. (3) The police apprehend the suspect and kill him before he can detonate his bomb. No one except the suspect is killed or injured. The police are praised for their courage and judgment.

Considering the risks and the circumstances, I want the police to act. They did act appropriately and should not be criticized for making a reasonable decision. They believed that their lives along with others were in danger and acted accordingly.

170 posted on 07/25/2005 8:58:32 AM PDT by kabar
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To: marty60
"Not in Houston, it's against the rules for HPD to stop or chase people that look like they might be from South of the Border ora Muslim"

Even if they think the suspect has a bomb and is about to blow the smithereens out of everyone in the immediate vicinity? ....right... Are you really that dense?
171 posted on 07/25/2005 8:58:43 AM PDT by monday
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To: Brilliant
This would not have happened in the US. American cops have a lot more experience dealing with guns.

The British police are probably as well-versed in the use of firearms as their American counterparts.

If we had just had a terrorist bombing in a subway system, this incident could well have happened in a city like NY or DC.

172 posted on 07/25/2005 8:59:42 AM PDT by Modernman ("Laws are like sausages, it is better not to see them being made." -Bismarck)
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To: monday
wear a wife beater

My original comments had been an attempt at humour (I know, I know, a risky business at here at FR). I have no intention of prowling Ebay's auctions for bullet proof vests but I am intrigued by this wife beater thing. Could you enlighten me as to what that might be?

173 posted on 07/25/2005 9:00:00 AM PDT by Prodigal Son
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To: FostersExport
All concerned screwed up.

The runner punched his own ticket!

174 posted on 07/25/2005 9:00:50 AM PDT by cbkaty (I may not always post...but I am always here......)
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To: monday

During the holidays a ring of theives were brazenly robbing at will in Houston. HPD did little to stop it. They headed back to Messico after they made their haul. Went on for about a month. I have seen up close how the HPD turns their heads the other way when a South of the Border type is involved in crime. What happened in Alabama would never be "tolerated" in the Dum stronghold of Houston.


175 posted on 07/25/2005 9:03:08 AM PDT by marty60
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To: MadIvan
Let me think. Terrorist bombings and a heightened state of alert.

I have to decide whether to face a charge of illegal residence or risk dying.

Let me think...
I'll get back to you.

176 posted on 07/25/2005 9:03:19 AM PDT by Publius6961 (Liberal level playing field: If the Islamics win we are their slaves..if we win they are our equals.)
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To: Brilliant
Under the circumstances this observation is not only irrelevant, but silly.

When subways are targetted, and mass murder the usual result, it's a whole different scenario, not just a nut who "might have" a gun.

177 posted on 07/25/2005 9:07:39 AM PDT by Publius6961 (Liberal level playing field: If the Islamics win we are their slaves..if we win they are our equals.)
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To: Prodigal Son

Hey, Where on earth have you been.


178 posted on 07/25/2005 9:08:32 AM PDT by nkycincinnatikid
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To: colorado tanker
"The same rule applies in America as in Britain. If you do what the police say, you're very unlikely to come to harm. Disobey the police at your peril."

He wasn't killed because he disobeyed the police. He was killed because he 'disobeyed the police' AND 'the police thought he had a bomb and was going to blow everyone up'. A fatal combination.
179 posted on 07/25/2005 9:09:08 AM PDT by monday
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To: cbkaty

LOL! Uh oh! I guess it does rate as cruel and unusual.


180 posted on 07/25/2005 9:10:53 AM PDT by saveliberty (Liberal= in need of therapy, but would rather ruin lives of those less fortunate to feel good)
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